Quantifying Good & Bad Decisions

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Originally posted by: snidely333
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
The answers are a bit over 30%, . . . maybe 32%, or so.


I think the answer is half that, or so. About 16 out of 100 in group A still win and about 16 out of 100 in group B still lose.


Right. 32% will fall outside the +/- of one stddev, but it's only the half that cross between win/lose that matter in this case.
For each game, there would be various results/payouts that yield a mean of x and an SD of y. Consider the possibility that the results are skewed or bi-modal. Are there any casinos that actually want a normal distribution of returns?
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Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA
For each game, there would be various results/payouts that yield a mean of x and an SD of y. Consider the possibility that the results are skewed or bi-modal. Are there any casinos that actually want a normal distribution of returns?


I'm sure the casinos normalize their returns even if they are multimodal. I'm sure that when a big whale comes to town or when someone hits a huge progressive there is a non-Gaussian blip on the bottom line but I'm sure it gets smoothed over by the play of the normally distributed masses.

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Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA
Are there any casinos that actually want a normal distribution of returns?


I would think that every business would want predictable steady earnings.

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Originally posted by: KayPea
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Originally posted by: mrmarcus12LVA
Are there any casinos that actually want a normal distribution of returns?


I would think that every business would want predictable steady earnings.


All depends on how you look at it:

Each day at Casino X:
10% of patrons win an average of $10,000
90% of patrons lose an average of $1,200

You have bimodal distribution but the casino wins average of $8,000 each day.

If you plot the daily win/loss for the casino for a year it will be a normal distribution with mean of $8000.
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Originally posted by: snidely333 Each day at Casino X:
10% of patrons win an average of $10,000
90% of patrons lose an average of $1,200

You have bimodal distribution but the casino wins average of $8,000 each day.

If you plot the daily win/loss for the casino for a year it will be a normal distribution with mean of $8000.
Um, getting back to the IP's question, are there other possible sets of results (# of winners and # of losers) with the exact same mean and the exact same SD?

Is it possible there are MORE winners in the 99% game than in the 101% game, even though they both have the same SD?

At least a few of you got the correct answer, which is approximately 15.9%. There was no need to over complicate the answer since we only specified win/lose as the criteria. The percentage of people that will fall within + or - 1 standard deviation of mean is 68.2% of the remainder, half will do worse and half will do better. Therefore 100% - 68.2% / 2 = 15.9%. As I said it was easy math. Now what does it mean and what are the in-obvious implications.

That is to say:

Group A: Out of the 100 people Playing 1 million hands of 99% return machines, about 16 of them would be ahead at the end of a full year of play...even though they were playing with a negative expectancy.

Group B: Out of the 100 people Playing 1 million hands of 101% return machines, about 16 of them would be stuck at the end of a full year of play...even though they were playing with a positive expectancy.

Obviously, Group A would have 84 losers and Group B would have 84 winners.

Now imagine this:

Before running the experiment you told each group what their expectancy was, and whether or not they were supposed to win or lose. You even told them how much they were supposed to win or lose, which was $50,000. During the one year experiment none of the subjects was allowed to discuss their results or talk about the experiment publicly (for instance on-line forums).

Your job is to reason out which folks in each group would be the most vocal at the end of the experiment and what they might have to say about things.

Group A The 84% losers: They were told they should lose playing these games and they lost.
1. What do you think would be on their mind, and what if anything would they be saying if they posted on on-line forums.
2. And how likely do you think it would be that they would be talking on on-line forums.

Group A The 16% Winners: They were told they should lose, but they won. Same questions as above.

Group B The 84% Winners: They were told they should win and they won. Same questions as above with careful attention to whether you'd think they would even bother posting on forums. Keep in mind everything went exactly as planned for these folk and they likely don't feel they have anything to learn or share on a forum.

Group B The 16% Losers: They were told they should win, but they lost instead. Same questions as above, with extra attention to what they would likely now think and be saying about positive expectation gambling.

When answering these questions consider this seemingly unrelated question: When was the last time you got up in the morning, brushed your teeth, drove to work, had an uneventful day, drove home, had dinner, watched a TV show, and went to sleep...and then felt the need to talk to everyone about your completely unremarkable and normal day???.???
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Originally posted by: KayPea
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Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
We can say that:

1.Group A is making a BAD decision
2.Group B is making a GOOD decision


I think this is the more interesting aspect to the question. Who's to say what is good or bad? Is money the only criteria? Is getting money always good and spending money always bad? Although one in six of each group will cross the line between "good" and "bad", is this necessarily success or failure?


This post started on another forum and we discussed all that there with little productive coming out of it. I'll start a separate thread entitled, "Journey to the Undiscovered Country", which was the lead in to this one, if you want to discuss the whole good/bad thing here. It never goes anywhere.
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Originally posted by: snidely333
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
The answers are a bit over 30%, . . . maybe 32%, or so.


I think the answer is half that, or so. About 16 out of 100 in group A still win and about 16 out of 100 in group B still lose.
DonDiego apologizes for his rookie mistake.

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Originally posted by: DonDiego
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Originally posted by: snidely333
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
The answers are a bit over 30%, . . . maybe 32%, or so.


I think the answer is half that, or so. About 16 out of 100 in group A still win and about 16 out of 100 in group B still lose.
DonDiego apologizes for his rookie mistake.


Luckily, the math police will not kick you in the head 5 times. But if they did, I would understand.
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