"I've lost 10 of 14 sessions ... yet, I'm still ahead for the year."

Take the time to google "RNG" and visit some sites, and perhaps you will be able to better understand the RNG, how it works, etc. I've always preferred to get answers from true experts, the specialists, rather than knowledgeable people who may be lacking in some aspects pertaining to the subject.

It's complicated math, there are several ways to determine what the RNG "does" and how it is applied, etc. Definitely not an easy topic to grasp or understand.

In VP, basically, when you trigger the RNG, you are "choosing" from every potentially possible poker hand, about 2.6 million combinations of the 52 card deck for the initial deal.

When you discard to draw, once again you are triggering the RNG to choose from the remaining possible card combinations.

A RNG is programmed with every potential hand combination. The "value". An algorithm than calculates the results of it's formula based on some factors or other, the time of day, atmospheric noise, or something else. It than does it's computing of the formula to determine the particular result which we than see displayed on the screen as the value determined by those calculations.

I'm satisfied with my understanding of an RNG and how it works, but explaining it is difficult. There are many resources online that provide information and will better explain and clarify how an RNG works, what it is, etc.

I don't question the RNG per se, although I would like to know how many possible values it cycles through per minute or hour. Of course, that would change on every different chipset, and possibly be different on the same chipset because of various factors.

I do question whether it is possible to trigger the jackpot "value" every minute, hour, day, etc. If the RNG cycles 1 million combinations per minute, than in theory it may not cycle the specific Hearts Royal jackpot but once every 2.6 minutes over the lifetime of the machine.

In a slot, there could be many millions of potential combinations. Perhaps even a billion or more. So on a machine such as Mega Money, the "jackpot" may cycle through once per minute, hour, day, week???? Than, there still has to be someone to trigger the RNG at that exact instant.

My curiosity has been asking for years what the speed of the RNG is. How many cycles it performs per unit of time, or how often the major "value" appears in the "window" of opportunity that someone could conceivably trigger it.

If an RNG does 1 million calculations per hour, and there are 24 million values, than the "jackpot" value would only be possible once per 24 hours, on average, over the life of that machine and chip.

The RNG takes those values and randomizes them. It randomizes the selection of the value, not the odds of hitting it.

I think I'm done on the topics of RNG. It's too difficult a subject. Even though I do "get it" and accept it, I don't really "get it".

I understand what I need to understand, and take that "knowledge" on faith.

roadtrip I like this question of yours: "I would like to know how many possible values it cycles through per minute or hour." I wonder the same thing. For example, if I walk away from a machine for one minute or five minutes, how many potential royals have I missed? Its something Ive always been curious about.

Kaypea, you are confusing how RNGs work in slot machines and how they work in VP. Read roadtrip above.

Incidentally, I believe a RNG performs it's calculations by some factor of 8 x per second. (computers use "8's" or factors/multiples of "8")

So, if it performs 64 calculations per second, than 2.6 million poker hands would go through a theoretic full cycle once per 11.5 hours (approximate) with a "window of opportunity" to "hit" the RNG at the exact nano second to trigger a specific "Heart Royal value" of 1/64 of a second per 11.5 hours. (hypothetical based on the described numbers, etc in this scenario)

An RNG may perform it's function much slower (perhaps 8 calculations per time period) or much faster (perhaps 512, 1024, 2048, 32768, 262144 or more per time period)

Regardless of the number of cycles per second, I know I do not possess the abilities to push a button at the exact nano second it would require to trigger the "jackpot" value, even if I knew without a doubt the "time" it would appear.

But if I did know the frequency, the time I could "expect" it to appear, I may be able to gain a monster advantage playing a machine. That would require understanding the algorithm, vast computing capabilities, knowledge and training beyond my abilities or scope. There are many other "values" well worth hitting during that same 11.5 hour cycle period.

But, it has been done in the past. Technology has improved since those days, and being able to hack the machines in this day and age probably is impossible.

A google search should pull up the details of how it was done, etc, for those interested in the topic.

The heart of the RNG is the same regardless if it is picking a cherry or an ace of spades. It's all just numbers and boils down to probabilities.

I, too, would like to know the speed at which the machines operate. The state of current technology could generate numbers fast enough to have several royals per second, but how the game manufactures have written he code is I suspect a closely guarded secret that we'll never know.

KayPea, Im sorry but you dont understand.

Let me see if I can simplify it for you.

In VP, the RNG only selects from 52/53 cards equally.

In a slot machine, the "deck" is loaded. Instead of the symbols or payoffs having an equal chance of being chosen (as in video poker with each card having an equal chance) in a slot game the big payoffs appear fewer times in the "box of choices."

Consider this as an example -- not a real example, but just trying to show you the difference between VP and slots.

In a VP game, the RNG chooses from 52/53 cards in a box. Each card has an equal chance of being selected.

In a slot game, the RNG chooses from 1-million cards in a box and 990-thousand of those cards are "blanks" and 90-thousand cards are small wins, and 9,999 cards have "middle wins" and only one card is Megabucks.

Now, if the casino wanted to have a "loose" slots game that had more smaller wins, it could order from the slot maker an RNG that would choose from one million cards with a different breakdown:

500,000 with small wins
499,999 with blanks
1 with a jackpot

In video poker all cards are chosen equally.

Money....

Actually, the RNG provides the results based on the "odds".

In VP, we know the odds by viewing the paytable, and know there are approximately 2.6 million possible "values" the RNG can select for the initial deal. So our odds for the specific value of the "Heart Royal" on the deal are 2.6 million to 1. The "values" are "loaded" into the game, and the RNG selects the value based on the formula and computations used in the algorithm.

In a slot, we do not usually have enough information to determine the exact odds. We do know the number of symbols, and may know the number of stops per column, or someone knowledgeable with enough patience could chart that information.

Regardless, the "values" of all possible combinations for that slot are in the system. "Loaded" was the term you used. The manufacturer and casino determine the amount of hold they want on the game, and design the game accordingly to achieve the desired results. That is done with "blank" stops.

All the possible "combinations" of what we see on the screen are programmed into the chip set, and the RNG still randomly determines the outcome based on the "value" determined by the RNG when it completes it's calculations.

The RNG works the same way in a Video Poker machine as it does in any slot machine. But with the slot machine, there may be many millions or more potential combinations than VP.

And because we do not know the exact number of combinations, we can not accurately determine the "odds". If the casino said to us, there are xxx that pay yyy, xx that pay yy, etc etc, than we could computer the true odds on a slot, and calculate the hold or - EV on any given machine.

Generally, slots used to have 20 or 22 stops per "wheel". So in theory, a slot with 5 "wheels" and 22 stops would have 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 x 22 possible combinations. (5,153,632) Today's machines could have more stops per wheel (column) increasing the odds many fold. Increasing the number of stops by 1 to 23 per column would result in 6,436,343 combinations. (An increase of 1.3 million possibilities). Imagine the odds for 25 stops, 30, 40, or 50 stops per column. Or a 6th wheel. etc.

There is no "equal distribution" of symbols on slots. But the RNG will determine the "value" you have selected when you started the computations. Since there is no "draw" after the spin, the player's odds never "improve" on any given "play".

The game designers and casino have determined the desired "hold" or odds. That information is not usually available but I've seen some of them available on the internet. There is a special industry term (it alludes me now) for those "fact" information sheets.
Again, for those interested, a google search should turn up results on the topic.

So to reiterate, a player is at the mercy of the RNG whether playing VP or Slots.

The only difference is we can use knowledge and strategy to improve our odds when playing VP AFTER the initial hand is dealt. VP players have a second chance to improve and win.

We are always at the mercy of the RNG on either machine.

And if a slot were designed with "hold" buttons and "respin", than it would, in effect become a different version of our basic VP game. We could spin a column, or several for a second chance, and vastly improve our odds. Perhaps even find games with +EV due to progressives.

The Seminole Casinos have some Class 2 "lottery" machines. Pick 6 numbers. Teams come in and take over banks when the progressive hit's certain high amounts, because those machines become "beatable" at some figure. Seen it many times over the years. Even played "on a team" with someone else's money years ago for a percentage "if won". Yet those lottery machines are probably a 50% + house advantage in the long run.

And there are probably other slot machines with progressives that may have a hugh overlay jackpot. Maybe the MGM Lions. But without those "sheets" or knowledge of the true odds, I just don't know.

It's 2.6 million to 1 to draw a heart royal in a specific order. It's 649,739 : 1 to be dealt a heart royal.

And you keep writing "it's" when you mean "its". Thought you should know.

I don't know but I don't think the number of stops matters. I think it used to matter way back before RNG but now the RNG does its thing and then the wheels stop accordingly.

Money, the RNG doensn't change in the slot machine between and loose and tight machine. The RNG is the same. Maybe it's just semantics but the RNG picks a random number. That is all it does. Then, a chip or firmware or whatever you want to call it, is set to decide how much you win based on that random number. Ignore all the wheels and graphics. They are just for show. The RNG selects a random number say 1 to 1 million ( to use your example). The payout chip is then set for random numbers 1 to 500,000 small wins, 500,001 to 999,999 zero and random number 1,000,000 is the jackpot.

Um, no, they're not. If all cards were chosen equally... THAT WOULDN'T BE RANDOM.

One of the reasons I hesitated to respond to this topic is because it can be so difficult to explain. I suggested those interested in the workings of the RNG as related to slots and VP machines "Google" RNG and follow some links to sites with writers who fully understand how they work, and do a much better "job" explaining them than I could.

Yeah, I made "mistakes" on the true odds of certain results. I should have said "Sequential Heart Royal with Ace first" to represent the odds.

As for my grammar, I've been making that mistake since elementary school where I spent 3 or 4 years in the 6th grade. I think they finally promoted me because I had to shave everyday. Its a shame I don't really care too much about my grammar, I depend on my computer spell checker to fix that sort of stuff. I do thank you for pointing that out to me, but I still don't get it, and bad habits die hard. ::: shrug :::

You are correct. We can not control the RNG. I consider that if I can not control the results, than I am at the mercy for that event of whatever does control the results.

So, once again, I suggest that those interested in the topic of RNG visit this site, click some links, and read.

Google Search Results: RNG