"I've lost 10 of 14 sessions ... yet, I'm still ahead for the year."

So are you saying that only the RNG in a slot is predictable allowing the casino to set the payback to 92% but in a VP the RNG is unpredictable so the casino has no set hold percentage and no idea if they will make or loose money on the machine each month? Again, why would a casino put a machine on the floor without knowing it will be profitable?

The casinos don't know any better than the players do, how many royals a machine will generate, nor when. All they can do is estimate; the same is true of any casino game.

So I guess the games are just to lure in the customers and they make their money on the buffet?

The casinos bet real money everyday on the outcome of supposidally random events. I, too, will bet real money that I can predict random events (casino games), be it cards, dice, roulette, or even a flip of a coin (not a casino game but maybe the easiest to use here if anyone is interested).

roadtrip, you wrote: "The RNG works the same way in a Video Poker machine as it does in any slot machine. But with the slot machine, there may be many millions or more potential combinations than VP."

this is exactly correct.

snidely, yes I agree. the RNG just picks a random number. but in a slot machine, the "game can be loaded" with "misses" unlike a vp game in which every choice is an actual card.

mrmarcus, when I said "In video poker all cards are chosen equally" what I meant to say is that all cards have an equal chance of being chosen by the RNG. for example, on the deal, you have a 1/629,740 chance of getting a royal. do you agree with that?

in a slot machine, the "jackpot combination" also has an "equal chance" of being chosen but there are so many other combinations in a slot game, that the chance of choosing the "jackpot" can be made smaller and smaller based on all of the other combinations programmed into the slot. in a slot machine, the chance of getting the jackpot could be 1/200-million because in a slot you are dealing with more than the 52-cards that you have in VP. do you agree with that?

kaypea, mr marcus is correct. the casinos dont really know if they are going to win or lose on slots or VP. however, the odds of the game predict that they will win.

here's what you wrote in your response to me:

"So are you saying that only the RNG in a slot is predictable allowing the casino to set the payback to 92% but in a VP the RNG is unpredictable so the casino has no set hold percentage and no idea if they will make or loose money on the machine each month? Again, why would a casino put a machine on the floor without knowing it will be profitable?"

first, yes the casino can set a slot to whatever payback it wants by adusting the number of choices the RNG can make. but in VP the RNG only chooses among 52/53 cards so the casino can decide the payback based on the PAY TABLE which can be 9/5 or 8/6 or 7/5 or even lowering or raising the pay on a royal, for example.

for those of you "long term" and "over timers" yes the casino figures it will win. but as we all know, from time to time a royal can be hit back to back, or twice in an hour, etc. I am sure there are other slot jackpots that have been hit more frequently than a casino wanted, too.

PS. Im not a stickler on English or grammar eyethere. I make misssteaks too. Keep the info coming roadtrip, you did a very good job.

The VP machines are programmed to pay less than the actual odds of hitting that particular hand are. Whether a pair of Jacks or better, or Royal, the pay tables do not reflect correct odds.

A slot machine also does not pay the true and correct odds. Those misses you refer to are the odds at work.

I'll reiterate that if we knew the exact number of each combination on a slot game, it would be posgesible to gain an advantage (+EV) playing that slot machine, if the progressive jackpots reached certain unknown amounts.

Every game on a slot machine still represents every card in the deck for that slot game. It may be a blank, but that blank is still part of the possible combinations and has a "value" in the total possible hand combinations for that slot machine. Just many many more possible combinations.

If the Deuce of Clubs represents a "miss" or non pay on your VP draw for that particular spin or draw, because you needed a spade, it is still a miss. A blank.

Every column or spot on a slot still represents the chosen card for that slot game. There are not additional misses added to the programming. The list of possible combinations is represented, and if the house chooses to increase the hold percentage, they just add another stop to a wheel.

They do not say... "this machine has 10 million possible combinations. Let's add 1 million more "misses" to make more money.

roadtrip, youre certainly correct about the VP pay table not representing true odds in the game. I think the hand that particularly stands out as being "under paid" is the straight flush. but then if it were paid at true odds the casino would not make any money.

and the same is true with all other games-- roulette, craps. yes, I know the "odds bet" at craps is paid at "true odds" but thats another debate.

never mind