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"Winning"???

Don
Don
Sep 10, 2011
2:04am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: arcimedes
Since DD is into local favorites ... if you happen to visit Minnesota I'd be happy to buy you some lutefisk
DonDiego thanks arcimedes for his kind offer.

teechur and DonDiego have completed about ½ of their quest to see a game in every NFL stadium personally or in a jar. Minnesota remains unvisited. DonDiego will hold arcimedes to his offer someday, if he is not in a jar. However, in the event lutefisk is out-of-season, as DonDiego hopes, . . . he might settle for pinnekjøtt or vossafår.

oobiedoobie
oobiedoobie
Sep 10, 2011
2:47am
Block User


.







I'm not sure I have enough information to have an opinion myself. All the gamblers I associate with are multi-decade-veteran-pros and are ahead for their lives, and consequently have no need to spin anything internally or externally.

There is often little correlation between degree of success and need to spin.


arcimedes
arcimedes
Sep 10, 2011
2:49am
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Quote
Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote
Originally posted by: arcimedes
Since DD is into local favorites ... if you happen to visit Minnesota I'd be happy to buy you some lutefisk
DonDiego thanks arcimedes for his kind offer.

teechur and DonDiego have completed about ½ of their quest to see a game in every NFL stadium personally or in a jar. Minnesota remains unvisited. DonDiego will hold arcimedes to his offer someday, if he is not in a jar. However, in the event lutefisk is out-of-season, as DonDiego hopes, . . . he might settle for pinnekjøtt or vossafår.


Just your luck ... lutefisk tends to be served more in the fall. Isn't that around the same time as most football games?

Don't worry, I'd never force anyone to eat it. I tried it once and would never put that stuff anywhere near my mouth again.

arcimedes
arcimedes
Sep 10, 2011
2:53am
Block User
In my experience there is a correlation between how well I know someone and the positive/negative-ness of the discussion. With close friends it's not unusual for discussions to focus on the negative side. With acquaintances it focuses on the positives as I mentioned above.

FrankKneeland
FrankKneeland
Sep 10, 2011
5:22am
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Quote
Originally posted by: oobiedoobie
.
There is often little correlation between degree of success and need to spin.


More information: The pros I associate with never play independently and partner with between 2 and 5 other professional gamblers on everything they play...and have for their entire careers. In the event that they overstated their results they would be expected to share. One must have opportunity and motive. Even if motive is present, amongst non-solo pros the opportunity is lacking. Overstating positive results amongst the folks I know would be a costly confabulation, as we put our money where our mouth is at the weekly square up.

Since I have had little first hand experience with recreational gamblers, I'd like to talk more about the "fun" in gambling. As I stated in the big post, it is known that nearly 100% of problem gamblers have the "losing less = winning" cognitive distortion, but its prevalence in not known in the general public.

I'd be curious to know how many recreational gamblers that are down money in casinos overall for their lives, perceive short term loss reductions as "winning"?

Currently, I have only what I've read to go on, and there's no general populace baseline. I also have no direct access to gamblers that are losing. I just don't know any personally.

I could really use some forum input from the recreational crowd to get a better feel for the situation.

I promise not to judge.

snidely333
snidely333
Sep 10, 2011
8:50am
Block User
I bought in at Parx for $20 to play the ponies. First day I took home $12.50. Went back and cashed out for $24.50. I'm up $12.00.
discostu
discostu
Sep 10, 2011
9:02am
Block User
I went to the movies with $20 and bought one ticket and one drink. I left with nothing in my pocket. I was entertained though for a few hours. Unfortunately it looks as though those psychologists would be giving me a referral because I am delusional. I was telling people I had a good time even though I technically left without money.
FrankKneeland
FrankKneeland
Sep 10, 2011
9:47am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: discostu
I went to the movies with $20 and bought one ticket and one drink. I left with nothing in my pocket. I was entertained though for a few hours. Unfortunately it looks as though those psychologists would be giving me a referral because I am delusional. I was telling people I had a good time even though I technically left without money.


There is no correlate between money spent for recreation and the mental dynamic that we are discussing in this thread. You have managed to miss the point entirely and made a perfectly reasonable comment on something that isn't being discussed. Either you did not read my original post, or you did not understand it, I'm hoping for the former.

If your point is that money spent for recreation is a reasonable expense, I agree completely (as does the medical community).

People that go to movies know the non-variable cost in advance, and have no illusions as to the fair trade they are making: Money for recreation value

Nor does the movie industry try to hide and distort the ticket cost.

What is being discussed here is people that perceive momentary upswings in downward net loss trends as "wins".

The movie going equivalent would be: paying for a movie, watching a blank screen for two hours and still felling you were entertained due to gas the movie theater pumped in to drug you.

Is that clearer? Here let me try to summarize...

For recreational gamblers that are down money gambling overall in their life:
If you enjoy losing a moderate amount of money in return for entertainment value: You have no cognitive distortion.

If what you like about gambling is "winning", when you are in fact losing, with intermittent loss reductions followed by more losses: You have cognitive distortion.

Neither I nor the medical community is saying that gambling can't have entertainment value. Not sure how you got that from my post.

~FK
discostu
discostu
Sep 10, 2011
10:47am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333
I know a guy that gambles a bit. He told me he was playing blackjack at the Borgata for 6 straight hours and won $500. Told me that he started with $2000 and went home with $500. He was very proud of his $500 winning and said it's a lot better than he usually does and it took a lot of skill and some luck to do as well as he did. His thought process, best as I could deduce, was that he was going to play with his $2000 and have his fun. The fun cost $2000 so that any money he took home was a winning.


Yes that sort of thinking is very typical, and is exactly what the psychiatric community is saying is a major risk factor for problem gambling. Had he told his story to a psychologist, he might have ended up with a referral.

This is a nonpartisan issue between pros and recreational gamblers. Why a person gambles cannot effect a physical result. It can only effect how the person records the result. Here he mentally recored a $1,500 loss as a "win", a clear sign of cognitive distortion.

Scary...but sadly, not surprising.


I knew exactly what you were talking about and my point was based on the above quotes. I have found in my neurology studies as they pertain to psychological issues that a couple things seem to occur. Research is great when the outcome is what has been desired based on the psychologists pre conceived notion. Also, when you try to debate, discuss, or refute a particular point that one has already deemed 'the truth' there tends to be less room for debate and more room for the pyschologist to come across with a superiority complex.

If one goes gambling with a $2000 budget and comes back with $500 and calls it a win, then to them it is a win. I do agree that often people will only tell when they win and will not discuss losses. (Rizzo seems to do a good job oh telling both sides as do others in their trip reports).

Just because you didn't like what I said doesn't mean you needed to state that I either am not smart enough to get it or am missing the point. I got it.
FrankKneeland
FrankKneeland
Sep 10, 2011
11:54am
Block User
Quote
Originally posted by: discostu
Quote
Originally posted by: FrankKneeland
Quote
Originally posted by: snidely333
I know a guy that gambles a bit. He told me he was playing blackjack at the Borgata for 6 straight hours and won $500. Told me that he started with $2000 and went home with $500. He was very proud of his $500 winning and said it's a lot better than he usually does and it took a lot of skill and some luck to do as well as he did. His thought process, best as I could deduce, was that he was going to play with his $2000 and have his fun. The fun cost $2000 so that any money he took home was a winning.


Yes that sort of thinking is very typical, and is exactly what the psychiatric community is saying is a major risk factor for problem gambling. Had he told his story to a psychologist, he might have ended up with a referral.

This is a nonpartisan issue between pros and recreational gamblers. Why a person gambles cannot effect a physical result. It can only effect how the person records the result. Here he mentally recored a $1,500 loss as a "win", a clear sign of cognitive distortion.

Scary...but sadly, not surprising.


I knew exactly what you were talking about and my point was based on the above quotes. I have found in my neurology studies as they pertain to psychological issues that a couple things seem to occur. Research is great when the outcome is what has been desired based on the psychologists pre conceived notion. Also, when you try to debate, discuss, or refute a particular point that one has already deemed 'the truth' there tends to be less room for debate and more room for the pyschologist to come across with a superiority complex.

If one goes gambling with a $2000 budget and comes back with $500 and calls it a win, then to them it is a win. I do agree that often people will only tell when they win and will not discuss losses. (Rizzo seems to do a good job oh telling both sides as do others in their trip reports).

Just because you didn't like what I said doesn't mean you needed to state that I either am not smart enough to get it or am missing the point. I got it.


Perhaps, I missed your point. Sorry. It really seemed as though you were commenting on something I hadn't said. It's been a rough day. Let just put the blame on me and move on.

I'll be signing off this thread and may be away for some time. I have some personal issues which have come up. Specifically, multiple medical issues in my adopted family, which require leaving town.

Be well everyone.

Sincerely,


Frank Kneeland
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