Roulette Table/Biased ?

I was reading a post about getting thrown out of a casino and the roulette wheel came up. I felt it needed
it's own thread.

I have read a lot of stories on the roulette wheel though I never purchased a book. A lot of what I have read was the biased wheel.
I tend to watch for that . Thats why I like the previous numbers shown on the stick. Not as much repetitive numbers but numbers on one side of the wheel.
If you go through the casino in the early hours and can see some of the tables being set . Sometimes you will see a mechanic with a 4 ft level laying across the top of the wheel. Its almost like balancing a pool table.
I never have taken notice of the dealers with the spins. Though it is interesting . I would say if you think you can get help tip generously. Something I notice is tight . I always tip on every small win 35-1 and above.

I have seen Roulette dealers who are pretty good at hitting segments of the wheel. ON two different occasions, one day apart, after a "nice" win, I've offered a tip on a table game, or to play the "small" tip on the roulette wheel one table over. My dealer elected the "play it" option.

I asked the dealer where he'd like it played (empty roulette table) and he told me "17". Bingo, it hit. And the dealers got a 35-1 toke.

Again, next day, same place, same situation. No other players on the game. I again asked the same roulette dealer where to play it, he told me "17", and I decided to make it a two way wager. Again he hit the number, dropped his half, and I took my profit, leaving another two way up. This time, the spin ended two slots over from 17.

After that demonstration, I strongly believe some dealers are definitely talented, and certainly capable of hitting certain segments of a wheel more than true odds indicate they should be able to do so.

Of course, the trial was short term, and could have been pure luck.

This was at the Isle of Capri in Biloxi, prior to it's being destroyed by hurricanes several years ago.

I do not believe this "talent" is applicable to all numbers. The dealer probably releases the ball when he spots a green zero or double zero at a certain spot during the spin, resulting in the consistency and increased odds. Other layout wagers should prove more difficult due to finding the release "signal number".

Many casinos require the dealers to alternate the wheels direction every spin as a preventive measure.

That's interesting. I have to do some more observing. I'd love to pick up on that.

I do enjoy Roulette . Maybe $ 25 a spin . I have 5 favorite #s. My wifes birthday (27) is my favorite and to be honest it has been good to me.

Since you guys have offered some info, let me add:

1. types of wheel bias: off balance is one, and that would favor only half of a wheel at a time, not any particular quarter, segment or number. this is actually common but with the layout of the numbers its really not the "biggest worry" of the casinos.

2. wear of the wheel. aha, this is more serious. if the wheel is old and there is visible wear on certain ridges and compartments these "numbers" can have an edge of trapping the ball. with a 5% house advantage, some of these "wear marks" can add up to 3% on each number, and if more than one number is "worn" to give an expected drop of the ball, the house edge can go to hell. dont look for "well worn" wheels in your major casinos, however. these can be replaced easily.

3. it takes somewhere between 400 and 4000 recorded spins to come up with a "program" to detect wheel bias of all sorts. teams would have to work in shifts to determine a biased wheel. computer programs can speed up the process a bit.

4. the biggest threat to the casino is targeted spins and ball drops by the dealer. but it takes years of experience and timing. frankly, Ive never heard of a dealer targeting a number. the best I observed was + or - four positions of the targeted number, or 9 positions in total or about 1/4 of the wheel. this "skill" was demonstrated to me -- NO MONEY WAS BET -- it was for demonstration purposes only.

Even if you come upon a biased wheel and an obliging dealer I wouldnt bet too much money on this. Folklore will tell you about big fortunes won-- but I think that's folklore.

There are a few cases of teams using computers, detecting bias, and betting appropriately but Im really not sure if they made that much money doing it.

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Since you guys have offered some info, let me add:

3. it takes somewhere between 400 and 4000 recorded spins to come up with a "program" to detect wheel bias of all sorts. teams would have to work in shifts to determine a biased wheel. computer programs can speed up the process a bit.


I'd be hanging around a long time with my observations. I'm there a week. LOL

That was some really interesting stuff .

Thanks Money.

Perhaps my Biloxi dealer was not targeting a specific number, but that particular section, and got lucky. I do not attribute that "fluke" as anything but luck, although I do believe he did target a section, and the result worked out by hitting perfect.

I've "known" targeting was viable "forever" with an experienced dealer. The Biloxi dealer was "older" and been in the biz for a long time.

I also "noticed" that he seemed to be watching the spin before releasing, and once let the wheel rotate more than another time, giving it a little extra push. My guess was he did not like the speed, or missed his "mark" the first time.

I would not expect an experienced dealer to be able to hit the exact number, but to be able to consistently hit a "small" section of the wheel.

For those who do play, I expect there are several important factors to consider.

You must find a dealer with years of experience.
You must become friendly with that dealer, and convince that dealer it's beneficial to them to "help" you win. Two way bets would certainly help.

Watch the dealers habits. If they seem to be watching the wheel rotation before releasing the ball, perhaps they are "aiming" for a spot. If they are not watching the wheel spin before releasing, but keeping eyes on the layout, they most likely are not "aiming".

A table where you are the only player would possibly allow more privacy to attempt to socially engineer the dealer, if that dealer is experienced enough.

Let me add my two cents for what its worth. There was a Japanese show called "Challenges of Fire" shown here in Hawaii where contestants (dads) attempted very difficult "parlor tricks" Stuff like throwing a card to cut a cucumber, riding a unicycle through an obstacle course, etc.... If they won the family got to pick up to $20,000 in dream prizes. Whenever they started the challenge they brought an "expert" to demonstrate that the stunt could actually be done. Well you guessed it, this one episode is where you had to hit the zero on a regulation roulette wheel. The expert hit it all three times. The Dad practiced all week and on the show he hit it on you guessed it ZERO. When they showed the Dad practicing, they said the secret was the speed of the wheel and where the ball was released. I asked a roulette dealer about this when we were alone and he said like anything else when you do it long enough it becomes second nature. As a safeguard the casinos require dealers to look away when releasing the balls. Not all dealers do, especially when they are riding a bet with you. Take it for what its worth.

The best time I have at Roulette tables is when there are two female dealers (one who spins the wheel and the other helps to stack chips). They kind of go into auto pilot mode where they can talk about non casino stuff, but still deal the game. I find in this kind of situation where the dealer will get in the same rhythm of how she picks up the ball and releases it, all in one smooth move. As long as you aren't betting astronomical amounts, nobody is paying serious attention to you as you bet on various numbers and their neighbors.

Did you ever play the French roulette table at the Paris? A few things that were different at that wheel from any other wheel in Vegas. It always had two croupiers and often times three. They placed your bets for you. It had its own dedicated pit critter. It was not only single zero, it had "in prison" rules on even money bets in affect, dropping the house edge to about 1.3%. Neighbors and other sectional bets were available. The direction of the spin of the wheel and the ball were reversed after each spin.

That table was only on the casino floor for the first year the Paris was open. It treated me VERY good! I was flying to Vegas once a month to play that wheel, and it was well worth it! Gawd, I miss that wheel!!

Yes, I actually did play that table. I was with friends who had a very high roller friend with them. There must be some secret button in the casino, because a casino hostess pounced on the high roller within two minutes after he took ten thousand out in chips and told him she could give him a $50,000 line of credit right now, and could probably give him more after checking up on a couple of things.

The french roulette table with the formal croupiers also has named sections of the wheel that you can bet on. Each named section has a certain number of neighboring numbers.

The MGM Grand also had a formal European wheel when it first opened.