Should Southern Border Security be improved? (POL)

DonDiego's graph does not make the point he says it does - and his definition of "Returns" is more than a little inaccurate - which is what happens when you get information from "The Federalist". Remember when that same source told us the Clinton Foundation only gave 10% of its money to charity? I would be too embarrassed to ever cite it again.

The Department of Homeland Security handles deportations or "Removals" which encompasses illegal aliens who are rounded up within our country by the executive branch of our government.... "Returns" are primarily handled by border patrol and encompass people that are caught at the border and turned around. It should be no surprise to anyone that "returns" are lower in this administration because net illegal immigration has been at its lowest levels in decades. You cant "return" people that are not crossing the border. DonDiego's graph from "The Federalist" and his vocabulary lesson would have you believe "returns" represent something they dont.

Politifact explains "Returns vs Removals"

"In federal government lingo, official judicial or administrative orders to leave the country are called "removals," and they can happen right at the border or anywhere else on American soil. A removal is what most people would consider a deportation.

But for people caught illegally crossing the border and simply turned around, there’s another term: "return."

Unlike removals, a return does not bar someone from legally entering the country someday, though that is hard for most because they do not have a family or employment connection necessary to get in line for citizenship, said David Martin, a University of Virginia School of Law professor. Martin also worked as Immigration and Naturalization Service general counsel in the Clinton administration and as DHS deputy general counsel from 2009-10 under Obama.

The Border Patrol primarily handles voluntary returns to Mexico, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement, equipped with immigration judges and detention center beds, generally handles removals."

Politifact verifies net illegal immigration is ZERO...

alanleroy makes an excellent point, as usual.

And alanleroy's comment brings the conversation to the most important issue. It isn't how many folks have been deported that matters; what matters is how many are still here. And what are the plans for dealing with them now.

The Obama has actually made this quite clear:
"Obama announced in November [2014] [in an Executive Action] that up to 5 million illegal immigrants would be eligible to be shielded from deportation — including undocumented parents of U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents — as long as they met certain criteria. One of the signature initiatives of his presidency, the plan also expands a 2012 program that has deferred the deportations of more than 600,000 immigrants brought to the United States illegally as children and has granted most of them work permits.
But after Texas and 25 other states sued the administration, calling the moves unconstitutional, a federal judge in Texas in February put them on hold until the case is resolved. A federal appeals court recently upheld that injunction, with legal observers now saying the court fight could last until late in Obama’s term."

And in 2014 The Obama tried to expand such "deportation amnesty" to "up to 5 million illegal aliens. This program was halted by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit in New Orleans on 26 May 2015. Texas and 25 other States had sued calling the amnesty program Unconstitutional and justifying to the Court that the States would incur a financial burden if the plan were allowed to proceed.
Judge Jerry Smith wrote that the policy “is the affirmative act of conferring ‘lawful presence’ on a class of unlawfully present aliens. Though revocable, that new designation triggers eligibility for federal and state benefits that would not otherwise be available.”

Ref: The Washington Post - 7Jun2015
Ref: The Washington Post - 26 May 2015

So, . . . since 2012 The Obama has granted 600,000 illegal aliens work permits so they can get onto the Social Security System and other Federal worker programs.

600,000 illegal aliens here, . . . 5 million illegals there, . . . and tens-of-thousands of Central American children who come on 'cross the Rio Grande last year o'er in the corner too. Pretty soon it adds up to a lot and lots of folks signed up for beneficial Federal Programs, . . .
. . . and "for the children".

And, . . .W-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-e-e-e- ! Lots of new voters, if'n there's no need for any voter ID, jes' like The Obama likes it. DonDiego wonders who'd they all vote fer'. Hint: Donald Trump is unlikely.

As usual, PJ is completely obtuse to reality. He and others of his ilk will never stop spouting nonsense until the day reality hits personally at home - then they will cry "why hasn't anyone done anything" about this problem? At that time, they can thank Obeyme and all of their bleeding heart liberal brethren - and , as usual, it will be too late.

Too late for what?

There is no down side here for a true progressive.
It will take 100+ years for liberal/progressive policies to fail (and they will fail). Meanwhile, the liberal aristocracy will live rich with their power intact riding on the backs of the poor. The massed poor will be content knowing that they are living slightly better without having to put in any real work or risk. The middle class will have to work a little harder and do with a little less but will have a warm spot in their hearts that they are uplifting (ever so slightly) the poor and downtrodden.
2% of the population, including the liberal aristocracy, will live richer and more privileged than ever. Even this is by design as it gives the poor something to focus their anger on and distracts them away from the power base that controls them.

DonDiego employs the same definition which the Department of Homeland Security [DHS] Yearbook employs, and the data is from the DHS too.
And it makes exactly the point DonDiego intended.

pjstroh cites Politifact: Politifact explains "Returns vs Removals".
And pjstroh's new source supplies another picture [pjstroh likes pictures]. The data represented on pjstroh’s/Politifact’s new picture is inconsistent with the DHS data presented earlier by both pjstroh and DonDiego.

DonDiego will leave the determination as to which data is official as an exercise for the reader.

Note: For the record the original graph of "deportations" which pjstroh supplied based on DHS "removals" and the graph from "The Federalist" which DonDiego offered as an accurate picture of the "removals" and "returns" are both accurate numerically but in error grammatically.
Technically the term "deportation" is no longer used by the DHS and hence no longer “defined”. This is why DonDiego noted that pjstroh’s graph was a subset, . . . just the blue portion [removals], . . . of DonDiego’s graph [removals and returns], . . . but both based on the same DHS database.

Big Government Bureaucrats like to change nomenclature and definitions every so often; it allows them more leeway to get away with something. Apparently pjstroh likes to change graphs depicting “removals”; DonDiego cannot speculate as to his motive.

Yep - I like pictures and graphs from Pulitzer prize winning fact checkers and research pollsters. DonDIego prefers right wing hack sites that gave us "the Clinton Foundation only gives 10% to charity" among other gems.

The Federalist (and DonDiego) make the point that fewer people crossing the border illegally is synonymous with the Administration not enforcing immigration laws.... Politifact explains why this is BS. Readers can indeed choose for themselves which site is more honest.

As to the original point - people who live in this nation illegally have been rounded up and deported far more aggressively under this president than any of his Republican predecessors and anyone who is graph literate can see that is true.

DonDiego presented the DHS data documenting all recent "removals" and "returns". He wishes he could have presented "deportation figures". DonDiego did present a link to the data available from 1892; the DHS has converted all that data into "removals" and "returns". The historic term "deportation" has been abandoned.
The data indicates the total number of "removals" and "returns" has been dropping since around 2000.

The Administration issuing an Executive Order granting "deportation amnesty", the implementation of which has been stayed by the Court, demonstrates the administration is not enforcing immigration laws.

DonDiego hopes pjstroh does not present another argument which has already been answered in DonDiego's earlier posts, . . . again.

In spite of pj's pretty charts, at the end of the day we have another person murdered by an illegal, who the govt chose not to deport/return

DonDiego might like The Federalist. Most of it is written by a guy named Publius....and a couple of other radical revolutionaries. They don't even want a Bill of Rights because that might be interpreted as limiting our rights. They prefer to simply define the powers of the Federal Government and then make ALL other powers a right of the individual and the States.

As far as I know, The Federalist does not address the issue of modern day illegal border crossings, deportations, returns, removals, or arrests. I do not believe there are any charts or graphs.

For the record - DonDIego is not familiar with the Federalist. Please ignore the stamp in the bottom right corner of the graph he posted which suggests otherwise...here it is again:



According to politifact the part in red demonstrates fewer people are busted crossing the border illegally. You can conclude (like Politifact) this is a due to fewer people trying to enter the US illegally....or you can conclude (like DonDIego) this is a symptom of lax law enforcement by the Obama Administration.

DonDiego might explain how border patrol is supposed to turn away people that don't exist.