Some Folks Are Experiencing Difficulty Today, . . .

Some people did just fine by this deal. Goldman Sachs, which conspired in a $10 billion fraud to allow Greece to enter the EU, will be keeping all of their profits. Because that's the way it always works, isn't it?

And the banks that originally loaned money to Greece have already gotten all of their money back with interest, as those banks were already bailed out by the IMF and Germany. Because that's the way it always works, isn't it?

So now Germany and the IMF needs to have the loans paid in full - to pay for their bank bailout.
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Originally posted by: forkushV
Because that's the way it always works, isn't it?

If DonDiego is correct in detecting disapproval in forkushV's question, . . . then forkushV and DonDiego are in rare agreement.
Commercial entities, . . . especially banks, . . . which make poor decisions or greedy-decisions which don't work out as planned, should be allowed suffer whatever unpleasantness befalls them up to and including bankruptcy.
The US Government should not bailout any commercial enterprise.
DonDiego has come across an interesting essay addressing some of Puerto Rico's problems today, . . . and. perhaps not surpringly, the US federal Government is a contributor.

". . . employers are subject to federal minimum wage laws, despite the fact that the federal minimum of $7.50 per hour is much higher relative to per capita income on the island than it is on the mainland. A mainland U.S. worker earning the minimum wage is making about 28 percent of per capita income in the country as a whole. A worker earning the same in Puerto Rico earns 77 percent of the island’s per capita income. This means that even entry-level workers are much more expensive to hire in Puerto Rico."

[So, employment is affected negatively by mandatory high wages. Duh! - DD]

"Additionally, the report found, social safety net benefits are, given the cost of living on the island and the relative earnings of minimum wage, more generous than on the mainland.
'Workers are disinclined to take up jobs because the welfare system provides generous benefits that often exceed what minimum wage employment yields; one estimate shows that a household of three eligible for food stamps, AFDC [Aid to Families with Dependent Children], Medicaid and utilities subsidies could receive $1,743 per month — as compared with a minimum wage earner’s take-home earnings of $1,159.'
One result is that only 40 percent of the adult population is gainfully employed, versus more than 60 percent in the mainland."

[Another surprise ! Generous welfare benefits "disincline" citizens to "take up jobs". Duh! - DD]

Ref: thefiscaltimes
Yes, it's a wonderful idea for a creditor to give me more and more and more money to an entity who promises and demands to overspend. Yes, this is crazy sarcasm towards a crazy idea. Malliber, would you like to give me a loan?


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Originally posted by: malibber2
What failed was the austerity measures imposed by foreign creditors. The austerity fetishists said if you impose these austerity measures the confidence fairy will reward you with economic growth. Instead of growth the Greek economy has shrunk by 25% since 2010 and their unemployment rate also sits at about 25% today.

Instead of admitting their failed polices led to these problems the austerity fetishists are insisting the only way for the Greek people to experience economic pleasure is through even more pain.



Boiler fully agrees with DD's assessment. Lenders that make bad loans should pay the consequences. Bailouts turn into a long term disaster.


Quote

Originally posted by: DonDiego
Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
Because that's the way it always works, isn't it?

If DonDiego is correct in detecting disapproval in forkushV's question, . . . then forkushV and DonDiego are in rare agreement.
Commercial entities, . . . especially banks, . . . which make poor decisions or greedy-decisions which don't work out as planned, should be allowed suffer whatever unpleasantness befalls them up to and including bankruptcy.
The US Government should not bailout any commercial enterprise.


This is a rarity. PJ and I fully agree on this situation.


Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
What failed was the austerity measures imposed by foreign creditors. The austerity fetishists said if you impose these austerity measures the confidence fairy will reward you with economic growth. Instead of growth the Greek economy has shrunk by 25% since 2010 and their unemployment rate also sits at about 25% today.

Instead of admitting their failed polices led to these problems the austerity fetishists are insisting the only way to experience economic pleasure is through pain.


Creditors are not responsible for Greece's fiscal irresponsibility.

Greece has been plagued with unsustainable policies for years - and it is impossible to get elected into office in Greece unless you support them. I don't feel bad for a country that allows people to retire at 50 with a full pension.
75% of Greek Pensioners retire early

If the people of Greece demand these policies stay in place going forward then they should figure out how to fund those policies themselves instead of asking Germany to do it for them.


Both parties voted for bailouts for Wall Street. Under our system, massive corporate losses are socialized, while corporate profits are privatized. Really a pretty good system if you are on the right side of that equation.
Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
Both parties voted for bailouts for Wall Street. Under our system, massive corporate losses are socialized, while corporate profits are privatized. Really a pretty good system if you are on the right side of that equation.
Absolutely so.

A positive factor found in free enterprise economies is that the deadwood - failing companies, inefficient companies, badly managed companies - fail in down-cycles. The recovery is stronger because of this "creative destructive" weeding-out the dregs.

But a big-enough [too big !] Government controlled by big-enough [too big !] "campaign contributors" can circumvent the downturns, . . . at least temporarily.

The major result is the ever-growing disparity between the 1% and everyone else. And when one adds in the Government policy of maintaining artificially low interest-rates, the disparity grows ever faster, as the wealthy can invest for higher yield investments other than bonds, thereby inflating the stock market to levels not justified by fundamentals.

DonDiego opposed the bailouts. The economy would be better off had those banks/investment houses responsible for the financial mess had been allowed to fail, . . . and a significant recession cleared out a lot of the financial malfactors. And some bigwig "contributors" should've gone to jail. By now the economy would likely be significantly healthier than it is.

The next "recession" is likely to be worse too, . . . maybe more than a recession. DonDiego is hopeful it will pass unnoticed up heh' in Appalachia.
All who voted for the bailout were wrong. They don't have have the guts to have the needed failure while on their watch.


Quote

Originally posted by: forkushV
Both parties voted for bailouts for Wall Street. Under our system, massive corporate losses are socialized, while corporate profits are privatized. Really a pretty good system if you are on the right side of that equation.


Maybe Obama ought to go to Greece and run their country with his "stimulas" program with all those shovel ready jobs.
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