Song of the day.

Y'all gonna make me lose my mind, up in here, up in here. Lol.

You don't know how hard it is to listen to this media and then sit silently in real conversations with people.

Then why listen to it?

I listen because an educated person actually listens to other perspectives before speaking for or against them. I do watch movies, etc before saying it sucks. You can't speak about something without actually having taken the time to know what you are speaking to.

I am also hoping at this point that debate become mandatory in high school. I cannot believe the amount of people that cannot understand the concept of knowing almost every subject is not black and white and there are pros and cons to each argument and they are valid. Hell, we even have justified homicide. This was debate 101 and you had to argue each side of the issue. I mean we debated abortion at 15 in debate. It baffles me that "educated" people don't get this concept at this juncture.

One of my favorite quotes is...it is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought while rejecting it. Aristotle.

Today's song.

It's a new day, a new dawn and I'm feeling good.


Lol. Step one. Hope and delusion. Haha.

You made a very well stated position of why you do "listen to the media", and I agree. So then you said something about having to "sit silently in real conversations with people." From your posts I'm surprised you find yourself in this situation, but I am guessing you are younger than many of us, inspired and passionate about troubles of the world, who and how to solve them.

My belief is that silence is golden, and can be the best response.

Certain situations call for silence:
1. At the beginning of a conversation about something one knows nothing about;
2. After hearing some of the points/sides/issues but not yet having formulated a reasoned question, whether for clarification or explanation of something, and to whom your question should be asked. Not having done so makes one a target of all kinds of static and hostility from those who aren't interested in considering another point of view.
3. When your point has been well stated but others ignore you or continue shouting you down. At that point you've done your duty; you made a good argument for your position, some may 'hear' it later, others won't ever. Save your breath, stay silent. The name calling back and forth you see on these forums is juvenile and pointless. Don't open that post again.

I always admire the quiet guy who stays silent in the midst of chaos, waits for everyone to run out of steam, and then poses a well stated valid question or point of fact (true ones). Watch the "oh, uh, yeah, good point" expression on others' faces. The discussion then takes a more conversational, polite, 'listening and learning' quality.

Even a better, often somebody in the group will notice that the quiet guy hasn't said anything, and then will INVITE said quite guy: "Hey, Sal, you haven't said anything. What do you think?" If prepared with a reasoned answer...solid gold!

I've never been "normal". I mean I moved to vegas. Lol. I was raised in church and a large family. Lessons from church, you do not go knocking on doors. You open them when people knock on yours. We disagree with the "door knockers"... jehovah and mormons on this concept. Large family lesson, stay out of the fight and mind your own business. Also dozens of personalities and opinions.

My objective on posting lately. Absolutely freaking losing My mind and in disbelief at the stupidity around me and blowing off steam smart enough to not let this mania affect relationships. I know and have lived on both sides of the fence and issues personally.

I love quotes and words. Random old proverb not attributed. "It is a sin to speak when when not necessary, it is also a sin to not speak when necessary". Thus, the losing my mind part. As you said, this fine line right now of speaking and not speaking. And yes, I also have had dozens of situations where people come back years later and say you were right. There is no need to waste time saying something to someone not ready to hear it. Yes, my rule is to say something once and never twice. They will let it sink in at the right time.

DonDiego agrees with daisybasket's proposals with regard to the values inherent in learning and applying the rational techniques of debate.

When young DonDiego was in high school he attended a debate at nearby Lehigh University between perennial Socialist Party presidential candidate Norman Thomas and prominent conservative William F. Buckley. Mr. Thomas was past his prime, but it was still an educational entertaining experience - observing the back-and-forth on whatever the issue was in accordance with the rules of civil debate.

Unfortunately, poor old, . . . [note the emphasis on "old"], . . . DonDiego fears the art of debate has been lost. Starting in high schools and now, apparently in colleges the idea of a meaningful, intelligent, educational debate as described by daiseybasket and endorsed by DonDiego is, perhaps, a memory.

And DonDiego is not referring to the easy example presented in the American Presidential debates, which feature candidates repeating campaign slogans at one another while trying to embarrass each other.

No, DonDiego presents as evidence the champions of the Cross Examination Debate Association National Championship of 2016.
n.b. The topic of this debate is "The War Powers Resolution".
This is not "debate".

The entire tape of the aforementioned debate can be found at How To Speak Gibberish & Win A National Debate Title
Unfortunately because of a copyright claim the audio has been deleted. As DonDiego thinks about it, the deletion is pr'bly a good thing.
This is not "debate".

As the link states:
i. " . . . the teams were debating the "War Powers Resolution". Rather than address the resolution straight on, [the eventual champions] Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities."
[The winning debaters decided not to address the topic ! ! !]
ii. "Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like 'nigga authenticity' and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. 'Fuck the time!' he yelled, . . ."
[DonDiego cannot address this statement intelligently, except that apparently there are no rules.]
iii. [DonDiego cannot say more, . . . really ! ! !, he has nothing more to say.]

In the interest of fairness, it's not just a "black thing": Fast Talking Teens Debate Foreign Policy at Warp Speed

No wonder honest, intellectual, reasonable, real debate is disappearing.

Yes. Small town "intellectuals" are a rare thing. Therefore, two English teachers, when teachers were still teachers and not this laughable inept form of today, were impactful. I was lucky to have awesome teachers. I was thinking of my speech and debate club that won many debate meets directed by the English teacher, as well as theater teacher. Farm school teachers are well rounded. Then my city school English teacher was of the Vietnam era and a hippie. More interesting perspectives.

Funny you should mention, Thomas. Very small world. A descendant of his in some way was one of our tenured teachers of high school advanced math, who again taught at the local community college, coached football and was the father of school mates. A tough, smart guy. No nonsense and old school. He expected our freshman math to be the same as his college course. I learned of this politician, Norman Thomas, years later and briefly researched him.

These influences are why I am also adamantly opposed to home school. The education is not in the book, but rather the different influences and perspectives of discussion.

I read LVA everyday but don't often chime in. I am not as quick witted or witty with my writings as many here.

I will have to agree that we have lost the art of civil discussion. I am pretty moderate and see good and bad on both sides. So many people I know are not ever able to admit that ANYTHING the other political side says is right or has any merit at all. It is really sad. If you do not discuss and listen how can you learn? I have changed my mind when I learned new facts and my outlook on things is not the same as when I was younger. I hope I continue to read, learn , listen and grow the alternative is scary.

I am appalled when one side says well the other side did it first , really? Did we not grow up learning that two wrongs do not make a right.