States face pension fund gap approaching $1 trillion

What are the "fair share" rates that rich people should pay? Proceed to the dancing, Mally.


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Originally posted by: malibber2
If the states weren't trying to finance tax cuts for business and wealthy folks from funds that should be going to the pensions this wouldn't happen. Perhaps, the best solution is to reinstate all of those taxes the states couldn't afford to cut over the last 20 years.


I last had a company funding my pension in about 2004.



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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Why don't these State and Local Governments just offer defined contribution plans (401K or 457) instead of pensions with defined benefit? Pensions in private industry mostly disappeared decades ago....replaced by 401K with employer matching. Why shouldn't our Government Employees manage their own retirement plans and pay into Social Security like the rest of us?


The idea behind pension plans is that the current generation of retirees is funded by the current generation of active workers. That equation falls apart when automization starts to shrink the workforce. You end up having 100 workers funding 200 retirees. Its a flawed model and should go away.

Don't accuse me of never agreeing with conservative perspectives.
The politicians over-promised what they can now deliver.
n.b. The politicians did get the benefit of voters voting for them based upon the promises, however.

The major contributor to the current worsening of the underfunding is an over-estimate as to the investment interest-rate which were to be available to fund the pension-fund. Most pension funds assumed the funds would be able to earn a safe return of 8%-per-year; that's what pension funds earned in the Good Old Days. Present returns, thanks to a central bank trying to "stimulate" a flagging economy, are more like 2%. 2% compounds much slower than 8%.
There is not enough money in the funds now; this condition will worsen.

DonDiego recommends the wary citizen keep his eye on the pension-funds of the State of Illinois. They are very, very generous, . . . and likely to fail first. Or demonstrate what measures will be instituted to "save" them.
They cannot be saved. The math doesn't work.

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Originally posted by: alanleroyII
Why don't these State and Local Governments just offer defined contribution plans (401K or 457) instead of pensions with defined benefit? Pensions in private industry mostly disappeared decades ago....replaced by 401K with employer matching. Why shouldn't our Government Employees manage their own retirement plans and pay into Social Security like the rest of us?


Republicans have tried to this exact thing in California, but the unions have spent millions to successfully defeat it.
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Originally posted by: pjstroh
The idea behind pension plans is that the current generation of retirees is funded by the current generation of active workers. .
That was the idea behind social security.

These government pension plans are supposed to be funded by employee and government contributions and then invested such that when the employee retires the contributions + investments provide a predefined stream of income in retirement....it is not supposed to depend on the next generation of workers.

The problem is the investment rate of return was assumed to be much higher than current reality...like 7+%. For example: CalPERS the California retirement system assumed 7.5% returns. They were actually killing that number at one point in time and actually reduced employee contributions...and kept the same guaranteed benefit.

Today CALPERS is now making just .6% on its investments. Its assets are only 68% of what is needed to fund future liabilities. There is a 139 Billion dollar shortfall for sufficiently funding what workers are entitled to for PAST LABOR. It's a debt that could have been avoided if CalPERS had used realistic investment forecasts and collected sufficient funds up front.

The real rub is that they have no plans to adjust that 7.5% projection and increase the required contributions until at leas 2018...Heads buried firmly in sand.

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Originally posted by: pjstroh
I don't know why any entity in this day and age offers pensions as opposed to 401k accounts. Has their ever been a pension fund ...ever... That didn't fall under financial strain?


I agree 100%.

Any attempts to change pensions in Illinois have been shot down by the courts as unconstitutional --- and recipients are guaranteed a 3% increase each year. This means if you retire today, your pension will be DOUBLE in 24 years. Its a good gig if the taxpayers are funding the bill!

You are learning


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Originally posted by: pjstroh
The idea behind pension plans is that the current generation of retirees is funded by the current generation of active workers. That equation falls apart when automization starts to shrink the workforce. You end up having 100 workers funding 200 retirees. Its a flawed model and should go away.

Don't accuse me of never agreeing with conservative perspectives.


I will never understand why SSI age goes up and Gov. pensions remain the same, people retiring under 50 years of age?????? My one brother retired at age 47, my other brother at 55, I plan to work until age 68 to 70 and make less than them.....But hey, take away my SSI, t hat as an evil business owner, I pay double...I pay 7.65% and my business pays 7.65%.
Government jobs are a good gig, but you need to kiss plenty of ass to get them / keep them.......
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