Terrible's: Not so terrible opportunity, or not?

Recently read a Trip Report dated April, 2010 about Terrible's on a different site.

While reading about the numerous promotions being offered, something that immediately caught my eye is a rebate program for table games. The original Trip Report said:

".... the one that merits the most attention is the rebate on losses for table game players. Normally, this kind of deal is only offered to the biggest of whales on the Strip; however, Terrible's offers it to any ordinary Joe who asks for it. I questioned the floor supervisors quite a bit about it. The way it works is you can request a rebate at any time, but no less than 24 hours since your last request. The floor supervisor will add up your wins and losses over the 24-hour period ending at the time you make the request. You get a 5% rebate of losses of $500 to $999 and 10% for losses of $1000 and over. Each 24-hour period is considered independent, and I was told there was no minimum play required; even just one bet was okay. "

The writer went on to say that collecting the rebate was very easy, and they also comped his room and charges.

Does anyone know if this is still in effect and ongoing?

Seems like a very player friendly and positive EV opportunity could be created from this by a knowledgeable advantage player. Table limits are max $500.00 Off the top of my head, I suspect with appropriate "strategy", table game players could create a profitable edge.

Perhaps playing at $500 per hand, quit if down $1000.00 for 24 hours, continue playing if "hot" based on some parameters. I seem to recall their rules give them a house advantage as low as .47% on two of their BJ tables.


Comments? Methodology? Exploitable?

I for one, like playing at Terribles. I'm on a self imposed sabbatical from gambling for the time being. Terribles used to have the best pay out for the side bet Lucky Ladies, they may still have. It is one of a very few casinos I have a net win in. Yeah, I know it's dark and smokey in there and is a far cry from the mega resorts. They've always comped me well and I liked the Buffet. I know I'm painting a bulls eye on my back for the high and aloof to flame on me for giving a positive review. What audacity, has he no class?, how dare him.

I played craps in Terribles and had a fun time. I was there with some DIs because we had a seminar at a nearby hotel and went to shoot dice there during our lunch break. They didnt mind that we robbed them.

Im also interested in this table games rebate. Because I dont go to casinos with DIs very often.

what's a di?

DI = dice influencer

OMG what a can of worms this will open!

Well, let me just head off the criticism right now. I can't do it. But these guys can.

I have double checked, and the table game rebate program is in effect. The details I have are the same as my original message. The only questions I still have are the unanswered ones.

I believe, and forgot to check, that it applies to all Table Games, not just Blackjack. But since BJ has the lowest House Advantage, that would be my choice. Some may "argue" that Roulette odd-even or color would be smarter because you can insure the 0 -00 for a few bucks. Or craps for the same reason or with a partner betting opposites. Again, think BJ is definitely the smart play for this. Why buy insurance when you have a rebate if you lose?

IF you lose $1,000 or more, and you ask, you will receive 10% back, in cash. Seems simple enough. (A loss of $500 - $999 rebates 5%)

This rebate has to be exploitable. At BJ, the HA is about .5%, and is IMO the "best" game to play with the rebate program in mind. "Perfect strategy and fearlessness required."

To maximize, and if intending to have a stop loss of $1000 (in theory), a $2000 buy in would be appropriate. You may have to double down, split and double, etc during your session.

My initial thoughts are that to best take advantage of this, a player must bet big. Avoiding the house advantage grind would be important, so $10.00 betting would seem to be a ridiculous approach, and by the time you "lost", or won enough to quit the session, the HA would be greater than the rebate.

So bets of $500 (maximum) until losing $1000, or winning your goal initially seem optimum to me. The "go big or go home" approach. The fewer wagers made, the bigger the theoretical advantage would be.

I am undecided on what a winning goal should be, or if there should even be one. With a big enough bankroll, should someone stay and play the grind because of the rebate? BJ House advantage is less than 0.6%. Rebate is 10% of losses over $1K.

The rebate is for a 24 hour period. If you have a good winning day, quit for 24 hours than play again. If you lose, take the rebate and wait 24 hours.

The only down side, in my mind, is that "black chip" play at Terrible's is not going to be anything like comparable play at other much nicer casino's for comps, etc.

So, is this something to stay and play, or limit a session to a specific win-loss, or length of time played?

Just how "profitable" is the offer? And what is your opinion or method to maximize profits?

Im a green chip player at craps. typically full odds on the passline with a start of 130/135 across. Give me a cold table and Im out a thousand bucks real fast. so this is very appealing to me. so roadtrip, I take it I qualify for this and if so, do I have to let them know in advance, present a players card, etc? the one time I was there -- just for a profitable lunch break -- did not bother to sign up for a card. thanks.

I'm positive you have to request to be "rated" for your play, which naturally would require a Players Club registration.

I am not quite as certain exactly how the amount lost is determined by the pit boss, or the full details of the offer. Of course, your rating could be higher or lower than actual. Perhaps they actually track the "high rollers", especially in a place like Terrible's. Or perhaps, a few hundred extra could be surreptitiously removed from a table and "tracked" as a loss when coloring up. (ie: Comp City tactics)

If/when I do go for this, and I'm giving it some consideration as an additional reason to make a Vegas trip, I would be certain to speak with the Player's club, as well as the pit critters to get the full details and be certain of my understanding of the offer and if there are other qualifications.

I believe that a person could lose one decision for $1000, and claim the rebate. I believe a person could get the rebate once every 24 hours. I do not know how they would react to a person who makes only a few plays, loses $1K, gets the rebate, and returns the next day for the same thing. It is possible that come day 3, or somewhere down the road, that player may be told to give longer play, or something else. I just do not know. I don't know how they would react to a winner on day one, who returns and loses $1K day two and claims the rebate. So many questions, not enough reliable information until in the casino talking to the boss. :::shrug:::

Nor is it my intention to make one or two plays, and lose $1K for the rebate.

I am truly trying to figure the best approach for the offer, something that would give me the maximum +EV and lowest ROR. (risk of ruin)

I figure I would, during a trip, try this probably 4-5 times during a week. Of course, being a casino whore, I might do it daily.

A "new" addition to a "Roadtrip" coupon run.

IF a person wins 5K on day one, than that would lock up a $500 profit on the rebate (if they lost $1K the next 5 sessions), and allow them a freeroll for other sessions.

I just have not figured out the proper bankroll or best strategy to maximize the exploitation of this offer, using a $1K session loss limit.

Also keep in mind that BJ has a $500 max bet. Don't know about craps.

:::shrug:::

thanks for the info.

I dont think it matters how long you play before you lose a thousand dollars. frankly, the casino hopes you lose one thousand dollars on one hand or one roll of the dice rather than have someone lose a thousand dollars over 23 hours of play. its more profitable to get that win faster from the casinos perspective.

what they are simply doing is discounting their profit margin. a one thousand dollar loss by a player is a one thousand dollar profit for the casino. they are discounting that profit by 10%. no big deal for a casino, especially if it means new business and new profits.

I will gladly give discounts of 10% all day long to someone who makes a purchase from my business if I have 90% of their purchase as profit. There is no material cost for table games. The dealers and the building and the electricity and fixed and variable costs are already there. they should promote the hell out of this.

OK, OK. I was forced to do the math.... I may not be correct but here are my calculations:

(Hypothetical, of course, and exactly expectation)

The double deck game at Terrible's has a house advantage of 0.47% with perfect play, etc. (I am taking someone elses word for the house advantage/expectation on their game.)

IF I were to play daily at $1,000 per wager, until a "winner" or "loser" qualifying decision was reached, my results after 100 days should be:

Win 47 days x $1K = + $47,000
Lose 53 days x $900.00 (rebate applied) = $47,700

So, as a "long term" offer, it does not appear profitable. But, it sure sounds like it should be!

However, as a one time play, short term, say 4 trials, with a "split decision" on what many consider a 50-50 game, than the offer is profitable.

I suspect the only way to "exploit" this would be to win the first time played. Than keep returning as long as you win, hoping to "streak" for several winning days before a loss. Return daily (after 24 hours are up) to keep the win streak going. When you have a losing day, collect your rebate than return for another session in 24 hours, if your "streak" is + . Stop playing if your W/L ratio is even and settle for the collected rebate "getting even".

This should not be a profitable long term "play" as evidenced above. And the number represented in only on their "best" game, double deck. Their other tables are 6 deck, bigger HA.