Two More Obamacare Co-Ops Fail

Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
The deficit went down because the govt was collecting obamacare taxes before the obamacare expenses started to kick in. The deficit is projected to exceed $1t again within a few years.

This has been mentioned before.


And repeatedly ignored.
Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote

Originally posted by: hoops2
The deficit went down because the govt was collecting obamacare taxes before the obamacare expenses started to kick in. The deficit is projected to exceed $1t again within a few years.

This has been mentioned before.


And repeatedly ignored.


Because when Hoops "mentions things" theres a good chance he's making them up which is why he normally asks questions instead of issuing statements.

CBO as of Jun 2015
"repealing Obamacare would add 353 Billion to to the deficit in the next 10 years"

Now we get to watch Hoops tell us why the CBO doesn't know what they're talking about - and we should pay attention to his non-existant source instead.
Not going to start a new thread, may as well put it here. I wonder how many people will change their mind when they realize the "fine" this year jumps to 700 bucks? I can see where the dilemma is for such a small business guy like this Golden Corral owner, it's really a catch 22. He can keep the business open and make no living for himself or shut it down, where does that leave the workers?

My Dad had a very similar situation. When the strip mines were winding down there was still a lot of coal that could be deep mined and augured. It's very expensive to set up a deep mine, especially for a small operator. Things started up, producing coal, guys were making a good wage, no hiccups. Then the UMW got word we started a deep mine and it became a huge source of friction.
It came down to the guys could vote to unionize (they would be making the exact same pay, but a couple extra bene's) or not. They voted to unionize and the mine shut down and my Dad retired, he'd had enough.

I will add, I do belive everyone is entitled to healthcare but what's going on now is getting absurd. For anyone to try and defend it is equally absurd. Something has to change, but nobody listens to me

It's an interesting article either way.


Many Low-Income Workers Say ‘No’ to Health Insurance


When Billy Sewell began offering health insurance this year to 600 service workers at the Golden Corral restaurants that he owns, he wondered nervously how many would buy it. Adding hundreds of employees to his plan would cost him more than $1 million — a hit he wasn't sure his low-margin business could afford.

His actual costs, though, turned out to be far smaller than he had feared. So far, only two people have signed up.

"We offered, and they didn't take it," he said.
Evidence is growing that his experience is not unusual. The Affordable Care Act's employer mandate, which requires employers with more than 50 full-time workers to offer most of their employees insurance or face financial penalties, was one of the law's most controversial provisions. Business owners and industry groups fiercely protested the change, and some companies cut workers' hours to reduce the number of employees who would be eligible.

But 10 months after the first phase of the mandate took effect, covering companies with 100 or more workers, many business owners say they are finding very few employees willing to buy the health insurance that they are now compelled to offer. The trend is especially pronounced among smaller and midsize businesses in fields filled with low-wage hourly workers, like restaurants, retailing and hospitality. (Companies with 50 to 99 workers are not required to comply with the mandate until next year.)


https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/many-low-income-workers-say-no-to-health-insurance.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity
There are two main reasons why these are failing. 1. Their seed money got cut in half as a result of Republican hostage taking. 2. In October the government announced that they are only paying 12.6% of promised risk corridor payments.

IMO nobody can logically claim that these are signs of Obamacare failure. Obama never really cared about the co-ops. They were just a symbolic measure to appease liberals that were upset about single payer and then a public option being taken off the table when Obama was courting Olympia Snowe.

Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99
Not going to start a new thread, may as well put it here. I wonder how many people will change their mind when they realize the "fine" this year jumps to 700 bucks? I can see where the dilemma is for such a small business guy like this Golden Corral owner, it's really a catch 22. He can keep the business open and make no living for himself or shut it down, where does that leave the workers?

My Dad had a very similar situation. When the strip mines were winding down there was still a lot of coal that could be deep mined and augured. It's very expensive to set up a deep mine, especially for a small operator. Things started up, producing coal, guys were making a good wage, no hiccups. Then the UMW got word we started a deep mine and it became a huge source of friction.
It came down to the guys could vote to unionize (they would be making the exact same pay, but a couple extra bene's) or not. They voted to unionize and the mine shut down and my Dad retired, he'd had enough.

I will add, I do belive everyone is entitled to healthcare but what's going on now is getting absurd. For anyone to try and defend it is equally absurd. Something has to change, but nobody listens to me

It's an interesting article either way.


Many Low-Income Workers Say ‘No’ to Health Insurance


When Billy Sewell began offering health insurance this year to 600 service workers at the Golden Corral restaurants that he owns, he wondered nervously how many would buy it. Adding hundreds of employees to his plan would cost him more than $1 million — a hit he wasn't sure his low-margin business could afford.

His actual costs, though, turned out to be far smaller than he had feared. So far, only two people have signed up.

"We offered, and they didn't take it," he said.
Evidence is growing that his experience is not unusual. The Affordable Care Act's employer mandate, which requires employers with more than 50 full-time workers to offer most of their employees insurance or face financial penalties, was one of the law's most controversial provisions. Business owners and industry groups fiercely protested the change, and some companies cut workers' hours to reduce the number of employees who would be eligible.

But 10 months after the first phase of the mandate took effect, covering companies with 100 or more workers, many business owners say they are finding very few employees willing to buy the health insurance that they are now compelled to offer. The trend is especially pronounced among smaller and midsize businesses in fields filled with low-wage hourly workers, like restaurants, retailing and hospitality. (Companies with 50 to 99 workers are not required to comply with the mandate until next year.)


https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/many-low-income-workers-say-no-to-health-insurance.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity


I suspect the Golden Corral guy is gaming the system. The article you linked to indicates he pays his average employee minimum wage and they work 30 hours a week. Which means at best they take home about $800 to $1,000 a month before insurance. The employee’s share of the premium is $130 a month. The policy comes with an upfront $2,500 deductible. It makes no economic sense to take a policy like this.

I agree with you that the system is badly broken, but nobody will take on special interests to fix it.
the system was badly broken 7 or so years ago. It sure as hell didn't any better during the last 7 or so years
Quote

Originally posted by: malibber2
Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99
Not going to start a new thread, may as well put it here. I wonder how many people will change their mind when they realize the "fine" this year jumps to 700 bucks? I can see where the dilemma is for such a small business guy like this Golden Corral owner, it's really a catch 22. He can keep the business open and make no living for himself or shut it down, where does that leave the workers?

My Dad had a very similar situation. When the strip mines were winding down there was still a lot of coal that could be deep mined and augured. It's very expensive to set up a deep mine, especially for a small operator. Things started up, producing coal, guys were making a good wage, no hiccups. Then the UMW got word we started a deep mine and it became a huge source of friction.
It came down to the guys could vote to unionize (they would be making the exact same pay, but a couple extra bene's) or not. They voted to unionize and the mine shut down and my Dad retired, he'd had enough.

I will add, I do belive everyone is entitled to healthcare but what's going on now is getting absurd. For anyone to try and defend it is equally absurd. Something has to change, but nobody listens to me

It's an interesting article either way.


Many Low-Income Workers Say ‘No’ to Health Insurance


When Billy Sewell began offering health insurance this year to 600 service workers at the Golden Corral restaurants that he owns, he wondered nervously how many would buy it. Adding hundreds of employees to his plan would cost him more than $1 million — a hit he wasn't sure his low-margin business could afford.

His actual costs, though, turned out to be far smaller than he had feared. So far, only two people have signed up.

"We offered, and they didn't take it," he said.
Evidence is growing that his experience is not unusual. The Affordable Care Act's employer mandate, which requires employers with more than 50 full-time workers to offer most of their employees insurance or face financial penalties, was one of the law's most controversial provisions. Business owners and industry groups fiercely protested the change, and some companies cut workers' hours to reduce the number of employees who would be eligible.

But 10 months after the first phase of the mandate took effect, covering companies with 100 or more workers, many business owners say they are finding very few employees willing to buy the health insurance that they are now compelled to offer. The trend is especially pronounced among smaller and midsize businesses in fields filled with low-wage hourly workers, like restaurants, retailing and hospitality. (Companies with 50 to 99 workers are not required to comply with the mandate until next year.)


https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/many-low-income-workers-say-no-to-health-insurance.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity


I suspect the Golden Corral guy is gaming the system. The article you linked to indicates he pays his average employee minimum wage and they work 30 hours a week. Which means at best they take home about $800 to $1,000 a month before insurance. The employee’s share of the premium is $130 a month. The policy comes with an upfront $2,500 deductible. It makes no economic sense to take a policy like this.

I agree with you that the system is badly broken, but nobody will take on special interests to fix it.



Gaming the system? Sooner or later, your going to find a way to stop the bleeding and lower costs (hence the hours). People won't sign up as the premiums vs the take home pay are not in their favor. (I gave up $3.00/hr to get benefits from the agency I am contacting with so I know quite well how this feels)

As has been stated in previous threads on the subject, somethings going to give. Either cut the number of employees, hours, take the hit of the fines, or close the doors. Hours are going way down as employers are trying to stay in business. (small to medium companies)

PJ, you need to take a look at the first millions of baby boomers who are retiring, as those folks leave the workforce those budget numbers are going to change drastically and the costs will soar.

To summarize; obamacare was supposed to

1- insure everyone - it doesn't
2- reduce premiums - they have gone up
3- keep your doctor - it doesn't
4- reduce emergency room visits - they have gone up





AT THIS POINT, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE.
From pj's beloved CBO from January, which is projecting deficts to grow to $1t+. Note items 2 & 3

In CBO’s projections, outlays rise from a little more than 20 percent of GDP this year (which is about what federal spending has averaged over the past 50 years) to a little more than 22 percent in 2025 (see figure below). Four key factors underlie that increase:
• The retirement of the baby-boom generation,
• The expansion of federal subsidies for health insurance,
• Increasing health care costs per beneficiary, and
• Rising interest rates on federal debt.
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