Two More Obamacare Co-Ops Fail

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Originally posted by: malibber2
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Originally posted by: jatki99
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/many-low-income-workers-say-no-to-health-insurance.html?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity


I suspect the Golden Corral guy is gaming the system. The article you linked to indicates he pays his average employee minimum wage and they work 30 hours a week. Which means at best they take home about $800 to $1,000 a month before insurance. The employee’s share of the premium is $130 a month. The policy comes with an upfront $2,500 deductible. It makes no economic sense to take a policy like this.

DonDiego fails to detect any "gaming" with respect to Obamacare.

The Law mandates that this employer must provide health insurance. So he did so.
[The fact that the employer had not already provided health insurance suggests he did so now only because Obamacare required him to do so. The employer is, in fact, behaving rationally and IAW the Law.]

The Law does not mandate that the employees accept the insurance. So they did not.
[Perhaps, as suggested by malibber2, the employees determine the cost to them is too high. If so they are, in fact, behaving rationally and IAW the Law.]

As the CNBC report provided by jatki99 states most employees turn down the insurance offered by their employees as mandated by Obamacare.
[Perhaps these employees are also behaving rationally, as malibber2 indicated the Golden Corral employees were.]
DonDiego does not know if the employees whom the Law directs must still purchase health insurance will, in fact, do so. If they do not they will violate the Law and are subject to a penalty. And DonDiego does not know if the Government will, in fact, impose the penalties required by the Law on them if they do not. [DonDiego supposes each employee will rationally decide how to proceed, . . . whether to abide by the Law's directive or take one's chances on being penalized.]

Hmm, . . . maybe, . . . just maybe, . . . the authors of the Obamacare legislation failed to consider that those affected by implementation of the Law would, in fact, act rationally.

Maybe the Lawmakers failed to realize that prohibiting those employees purchasing employee-offered health insurance from receiving the Government subsidies would diminish the likelihood of them doing so.

And the likelihood that most of the Obamacare Co-Ops, encouraged by the Lawmakers and the Obama Administration in accordance with the Law, are in significant financial difficulty also indicates circumstances not foreseen by the authors of the Obamacare Law. Federal Loans granted to the Co-Ops are now being defaulted.
[DonDiego supposes those administering the Co-ops will, in fact, have received paychecks as long as the Co-Op was in existence; they pr'bly did OK, . . . also behaving rationally. The primary losers are the US taxpayers whose taxes funded the loans to the co-ops, which will have been defaulted. Where, exactly, did all the money go?]

Conclusion:
It seems to poor old DonDiego that the problems of Obamacare are not because of the rational behaviors of those affected by the Law, . . . but rather by the incompetence of those who wrote/passed/implemented the defective legislation.
[DonDiego supposes the primary cause of the defective legislation was the injudicious Legislators who had to rush the Bill into Law along a purely party-line vote.]
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Originally posted by: hoops2
From pj's beloved CBO from January, which is projecting deficts to grow to $1t+. Note items 2 & 3

In CBO’s projections, outlays rise from a little more than 20 percent of GDP this year (which is about what federal spending has averaged over the past 50 years) to a little more than 22 percent in 2025 (see figure below). Four key factors underlie that increase:
• The retirement of the baby-boom generation,
• The expansion of federal subsidies for health insurance,
• Increasing health care costs per beneficiary, and
• Rising interest rates on federal debt.


And the same CBO says going back to pre-Obamacare adds an additional 350 Billion to the deficit.

I understand you like to cherry pick data - but you when you both embrace and deny the same source in the same thread - well, what are rational people to make of your posts?
By repealing obamacare it would cost $350b over 10 years or $35b per year. By keeping it, healthcare costs more than double the defict per year. So which is better
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Originally posted by: hoops2
By repealing obamacare it would cost $350b over 10 years or $35b per year. By keeping it, healthcare costs more than double the defict per year. So which is better


Say what? Get your facts straight.

Our healthcare system adds to our deficit. That is a true statement both before and after Obamacare.

But According to the CBO (the source you embrace and reject at the same time): Pre-Obamacare is 350 Billion more costly to the deficit than Obamacare....and covers 16 million fewer people....and allows policy rescission...and charges twice as much for Medicare drugs. So you tell me which is better.








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Originally posted by: malibber2
There are two main reasons why these are failing. 1. Their seed money got cut in half as a result of Republican hostage taking. 2. In October the government announced that they are only paying 12.6% of promised risk corridor payments.

IMO nobody can logically claim that these are signs of Obamacare failure. Obama never really cared about the co-ops. They were just a symbolic measure to appease liberals that were upset about single payer and then a public option being taken off the table when Obama was courting Olympia Snowe.


Do you have links to this Mal? If true, more seed money would only mean they might've lasted a year longer. Anyway, I would like to see the source and read the entire thing.

Boiler believes that Obama, Clinton, Sanders, and and other Liberals will not be mandating that those that who do not sign up for Obamacare by the end of 2015 pay a fine. Otherwise they would lose votes.
If we abolish obamacare it will cost $35b per year, but if we keep obamacare, health care costs contribute to the deficit growing from under $500b per year to over $1t per year. This is an increase of over $500b PER YEAR. Most math classes will show that $500b is larger than $35b per year.
The CBO does some good things, but understand that they live in a "static" world. If they were asked how much taxes would be collected if Liberals successfully raised tax rates to 100% for all, they would give us a number equaling last year's GDP. They are not allowed to take into account that virtually no one would work if all of their income was absorbed by government. Their charter requires that that the CBO must assume that effort is not affected by tax rates, which of course is not true. PJ's consistently implies that the data that the organization generates is fact.

PJ, by the way, how many hours a week would you work if government took every penny that you earned?


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Originally posted by: pjstroh
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Originally posted by: hoops2
From pj's beloved CBO from January, which is projecting deficts to grow to $1t+. Note items 2 & 3

In CBO’s projections, outlays rise from a little more than 20 percent of GDP this year (which is about what federal spending has averaged over the past 50 years) to a little more than 22 percent in 2025 (see figure below). Four key factors underlie that increase:
• The retirement of the baby-boom generation,
• The expansion of federal subsidies for health insurance,
• Increasing health care costs per beneficiary, and
• Rising interest rates on federal debt.


And the same CBO says going back to pre-Obamacare adds an additional 350 Billion to the deficit.

I understand you like to cherry pick data - but you when you both embrace and deny the same source in the same thread - well, what are rational people to make of your posts?


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