What casino game is decided only by the player?

Someone trying to actually time the RNG won't be able to press the button fast enough as the result should be done just after someone hits the deal button. (about less microsecond or 2)

None of the logic should happen at the card, everything should have been setup and ready way before hand. The only thing the card is going to do is to render the images, nothing more.

I'm going to be showing my age here:

There was a time where the CPU had to do much more than it does today and typically bottlenecks were in quite a few places. Video was one of them as the CPU had to do most of the work before the card could render the images. Wait cycles back then were the norm, and you tried to do everything to not have any.

For you non geeks, think of a tv with no remote and 5 channels to choose from.

I think the problem here, all along, has been the issue of "randomization."

All games in a casino are random to one extent or another. If the games weren't random it wouldnt be gambling.

The difference in craps is that there is only one variable, and that is the shooter. Since the craps table is fixed (and yes, I am ignoring air currents, and outright interference such as a hand getting in the way) how the shooter throws the dice will determine what the bounce will be.

In all other games there is a secondary variable -- an RNG, a wheel spinning, a shuffle of cards.

As I said many times, the craps table does not move so it is a fixed structure. Wheels move, cards get suffled, RNGs select different cards.

Without trying to insult me, Arc and MrMarcus, please tell me your objection to this reasoning?

well you cant really... I just figured one card per cycle... but you will never know how many cards per second go through a cycle... it literally could be millions, but, it all depends on the programming. for all we know, the "cycle" could be 1 card every 20 seconds... it could alternate between 2 cards every second... you will never know, and even if you did, you couldnt possibly try to time it...

You have a much better chance at attempting to "influence" the dice than you have at trying to time a VP machine...

Although, I must admit... when I play video poker, each action I do on the buttons I do to the beat / tempo of the music either playing in the casino or in my headphones...

So NO game is decided solely by the player? I will say the craps seemed the closest until you think about all the perfect conditions needed for a shooter to throw. All of the other players at the table could effect the throw/roll. What if several players stacked their chips very very high? What if one bumped into the shooter or the table? How about the players that don't move their arms/hands out of the way of the dice? What if a player at the other end spilled their drink as the dice left the shooters hands? I have witnessed that. And while this hasn't been documented to my knowledge, what if one tossed his buffet as the dice hit the felt? How about the dealers? Stick man moves stick and hits the dice like a baseball bat. I have hit the stick when I've shot. I would have to say there is definitely a randomness to the game of craps and thats why the casinos love a full table of "shooters".

When an RNG is cycling/shuffling it has nothing to do with displaying cards. It simply is asked for the next number and it provides the number. That number is then tossed in the bit-bucket and the process repeats. As this proceeds the internal state of the RNG is changing until as some time the deal/draw button is pressed. Only at this time are the RNG results taken and turned into cards to be displayed.

This is the simplest way to do it. It has been claimed by some that the number from the RNG is used to move cards in a virtual deck (exchange the card represented by the current number with the one on the top of the deck). While this would take slightly longer, it is not significant.

A 400 MHz processor that is simply cycling through the RNG probably has all elements of the program and data in cache. Hence, the processor can run at full speed or 400 million instructions/second. To generate 200K random numbers means 400,000,000/200,000 or 2000 cycles/ random number. This is very reasonable and it could be done in less.

You can't exactly figure it out that way due to how a CPU does its processing. Your looking at roughly 5 microseconds for 1 cycle, that's like forever in computer terms. Depending upon when the CPU was made will kinda help you out a bit. The newer stuff gets really nasty as you have both hyperthreading and multiple cores which changes up how stuff gets done. The older stuff is more straight forward which makes it easier.

In the newer stuff (since 1995) uses a concept called hyperthreading which basically means that I can put in a much longer code for each clock cycle. So instead of doing one RNG number, I can do more. Since the 2000's a different concept came to be called multiple cores. This puppy means multiple CPU's are on one chip, resulting in multiples of times faster than just one chip. Combine both and now your talking about fast processing power. So instead of doing 1 thing, I can now do much, much more. A typical CPU is quad core at least meaning 4 CPU's per chip. IF the RNG function can be used on all 4 CPU's at one time, your talking about 4 numbers at least per clock cycle or 2 cycles per draw (don't be forgetting about that hyperthreading stuff) or less.

This means by the time you think about pressing the draw button, the RNG has already done its work, gone out on a date, did the kiss thingy, and said good nite.

Nonsense, you've already been given dozens of variables which you choose to ignore so you can come back and claim there is only "one variable". You are wrong. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

As has been mentioned previously, the biggest outside factor is probably the position of the dice when picked up by the shooter. The position is determined primarily by the stick man, but also is somewhat dependent on the last toss.

tbone, in all of your examples, outside random events compromise the throw by the shooter.

but when there is no outside interference, every bounce of the dice is a direct result of how the shooter threw the dice. if the shooter threw the dice hard, they will bounce more. If the shooter hits a pyramid the dice will bounce to a side. If the shooter hits the bottom of the wall under the pyramids the dice might bounce straight back, and on and on. What is important is that the CRAPS TABLE does not change shape or design and it is a FIXED variable, leaving the shooter as the one who ultimately sets the dice on its path.

In all other games the player's action is dependent on another variable action -- a shuffle, an RNG, a wheel spin. A craps table is fixed. Yes, a craps table will randomize a throw but that randomization is solely dependent on how the shooter throws the dice.

If there were an RNG attached to a craps table, the pyramids would change size, the bounce would change, the slope of the table would change. In that case, craps would be equal to video poker in that the player alone would not decide the game. Or, if there were magnets in the dice and the table, the craps game would not longer be dependent solely on the action of the shooter.

Arc, this discussion is over. You dont know how craps is played. Here is the proof, you wrote:

"As has been mentioned previously, the biggest outside factor is probably the position of the dice when picked up by the shooter. The position is determined primarily by the stick man, but also is somewhat dependent on the last toss."

Really Arc. Stick to video poker.

Im done.

But that does not "decide" the game. The stick man decides the game, sometimes with assistance of a dealer or boxman.