What casino game is decided only by the player?

Look, Im surprised that at this point someone didn't say "God controls all games." That's how far and extreme this discussion has become.

With stuff like this going on and slow speeds of the forum. I started my own forum, and you could all have your own blogs for us to follow on there as well.

The fact that you don't want to understand LA is the table doesn't have to move to be a variable. It has a direct effect on the outcome and therefore is a variable. The shooter is throwing the dice onto an object that changes the speed, angle, and positioning of the dice which is all that is needed. Once the dice are influenced by an object that is not the shooter then everything changes and the shooter no longer controls the final outcome of the roll. It doesn't matter if you created a machine to always throw at the same spot, speed and angle. The outcomes can still vary depending on hundred of other variables no matter how little or stupid they are. I'm not going to list all these variables because many other people have. If the shooter is the only variable in a game and the only determining factor then he/she could always know the outcome. Since the shooter can't always determine the outcome then there must be another variable. There just needs to be another force that changes the outcome of the roll. Many people have already listed several of them. You just choose to ignore them.

You could almost think of it like the people who play Plinko on Price Is Right. The Plinko set up is stationary and doesn't move. It's still a variable because it causes the chip to make different moves and land in different spots which creates a different final result. The player can always drop the chip into the same position of the slot each time and always get different results. This is because the chip can react differently each time it hits a peg. Each peg can cause the chip take a different path each time even though the player dropped it in the same spot each time. This is because no matter where and how the player drops the chip the Plinko board itself creates the outcome which the player has no control of. Every single time that chip hits a peg the speed, angle, and spin of the chip changes which the player can't control. Craps would be the same way. Every single bounce on the table can cause the dice to move differently and the walls can always create a different reaction. The outcomes can always be different no matter if you throw the dice the same way or drop the Plinko chip in the same spot.

Well if you believe God is the all knowing and all powerful creator, then it's hard to escape the possibility that everything is predetermined....at least in this universe. Sometimes I wonder if the dice themselves have free will and are constantly looking to 7 out off a stray finger.

Well said, they do so need a robot shooter to show how a roll is effected once the dice are thrown.

At this point, everyone is looking for a reason NOT to understand how the shooter is responsible for the results of the dice. Please, read Sharpshooter's book. the guy is an aerospace engineer. he knows physics. he explains it better than I possibly can in a limited amount of space.

the physics of the game is behind the skill of "dice influencing." without the table being "static" there could be no dice influencing. And I will let those who believe in dice influencing explain their reasonings for "dice influencing."

needless to say, if the table weren't static (yes it can be an obstacle, but the obstacles are static) there could be no attempt to influence the dice.

The dice bounce around a lot only because the shooter throws the dice in such a way that they bounce around a lot. The table does not make the dice bounce. The table reacts to the action of the shooter.

Money, first of all you haven't scientifically ruled out anything from effecting the dice. You have so many variables stacked up, you can't even prove which are effecting the outcome and which are not. In order to prove or disprove that only the shooter is effecting the dice, you have to rule out EVERYTHING else. That means table, felt, people, air conditioning, chips, throwing style, setting of the dice, and I do mean everything.

I would first see if you could green screen the dice as they are being tossed by the shooter. Use a number of various shooters and see if that makes a difference. However, they must all toss the dice the exact same way each time in order to have the best results. Then, I would make a perfectly flat surface, and repeat the first exercise using the same people. Your going to have to do this several hundred times adding just one additional thing in the mix until you get to a typical craps table. Its the ONLY way to prove or disprove anything, there's just waaay too much stuff to knock out first. Then and ONLY then can you say anything scientifically about what effects the dice at a craps table.

Look, I dont need to dispel anything you are saying. the table is a fixed, solid object. it does not change, it does not rotate, it does not move. it is fixed.

the dice do not change.

only the shooter and his throw changes. If the shooter throws the dice one way, they will bounce accordingly. If the shooter throws the dice another way, they will bounce accordingly. the table does not say how the dice will bounce. the table only reacts to how the dice hit the table.

thats it.

Yes, the table makes craps a random game. but the table reacts to the throw of the dice.

the rng in video poker make video poker a random game, but the rng operates on its own.

do you understand the difference?

the wheel and ball drop in roulette make roulette a random game. the shuffling of cards makes blackjack a random game. but the wheel and the shuffle happen outside of what the player does.

in craps the dice only bounce because the shooter threw the dice so they would bounce. as a matter of fact, if the shooter slid the dice-- they wouldnt bounce and they would slide to the end of the table.

please go read the book.