What casino game is decided only by the player?

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Actually, the thread was finished with those who said "craps" on page one. If anyone (any two) who get credit for making this the longest thread it goes to Arcimedes and MrMarcus, our two resident experts of expertise.

and while it was not the subject of this thread, yes Arcimedes I was thrown out of NYNY and Bellagio and MGM Grand for what they considered "controlling the dice." I merely call it "influencing the dice."

Of course, NO ONE can CONTROL the dice. But there are those who can INFLUENCE the dice.

Enough said.


The amazing thing is you think this has anything to do with the issue. Your original question generically used the term "casino game". And, the most humorous thing about this is even if you could influence the dice they are still not "decided ONLY by the player". All you are doing is slightly weighting the randomizing function.

I realize you have no idea what this means. Let's just say you didn't help your case in the slightest.



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Originally posted by: chefantwon
If the thread is done, I'll take a virgin Long Island iced tea....


Money has stated that he was done about a dozen times so far. Don't count on it.
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Originally posted by: arcimedes
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Originally posted by: chefantwon
If the thread is done, I'll take a virgin Long Island iced tea....


Money has stated that he was done about a dozen times so far. Don't count on it.


I got my order in, call me when my drinks ready. Please.
I have an idea. Let's ask Anthony.

It would seem pretty simple that any game that has a randomization agent to it would mean the player doesn't decide the outcome. If any game has randomization to it then the player simply doesn't decide the outcome. They are contradicting statements. Saying the shooter decided the outcome because he/she throws an object that creates random outcomes onto an object that also creates random outcomes is like saying the slot player decided the outcome because he/she stops the the RNG and decided the outcome of the spin.
I think the point is that the RNG and card dealer can somehow cheat you but not the dice. Unless the dice are not fair.
Cheating or dealer interference is another interesting option that the craps shooter does not have to contend with. Dealers can engineer shuffles, the spin and drop of the ball in roulette, but I am sure this was not the intention of the OP. The dice results just do not depend on what an RNG or card shuffle or ball drop might reveal. All of this space spent on a discussion about table variables was just a waste of space. Those of us who play craps understand that in this game the roll of the dice alone makes the "decision" in the game. Those of us who play craps understand that there are pyramids, and felt and a bounce and the risk that the hands of another player, or a stack of chips might get in the way. But it all comes down to the dice-- and this game is designed to only have the result come from the shooter and dice. All the rest of the discussion is the product of smart people who like to think up a lot of exception and what-if's to a basic game with simple rules. I think some people here are so smart that they think themselves into a whirlwind of confusion. In more than fifty years of playing this game, I've never complained about interference from a 300-pound man leaning on a table.
Ok, maybe you can help to understand why it matters that you think craps is a game where the shooter controls the randomness and not the dealer or RNG. Although I understand the arguments, I don't understand the point or why it matters. Unless you're concerned with cheating or fairness, why does it matter?
I will take a stab at this. I don't think anyone has ever said that the shooter (player) CAN CONTROL the randomness. I think the entire question has revolved around what is the "decision maker" of the game. In craps, the decision is indeed made only by the results show on the dice thrown by the shooter. In BlackJack the decision of the player is affected by the cards held by the dealer. In Video Poker the player "stops" an RNG but it is the RNG which chooses the cards in the shuffle and in the draw. In roulette, and keno, and various carnival games in the casino the player sits back and prays. Even those players who believe in "dice influencing" know that the DI at best adds only a small percentage to the shooter's favor, but even those who believe in DI will never claim that they can CONTROL the dice or even "randomness." I also wonder why "randomness" became an issue here. No one said craps was not a random game. But, as was pointed out numerous times while the game is random there is only ONE decision making process which is the throw of the dice. It is interesting to me that a few posters here spent pages and pages trying to say that randomness replaced the shooter for deciding the game. I wonder if any of us can walk up to craps table and place a bet on "random"? I know that I can place a bet on "the shooter." In fact, I can place a bet "for the shooter." Can I place a bet "for random"?
I still don't understand why anyone cares if the it is the shooter or a dealer that throws the dice. The dice has 36 outcomes. Why do you care how that outcome is achieved? Player or RNG or dealer - - what is the difference to you?
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