What casino game is decided only by the player?

An excellent question, Snidely. Those of us who are traditional craps players enjoy the game because we throw the dice and we can literally control our fate with our hand. Yes -- hand -- because a legal throw is only one-handed. This is why I don't play electronic craps or even at Indian casinos where "card craps" is offered. If we didn't care about throwing the dice, or deciding the game "ourselves" then card craps or electronics craps would be no different. In all fairness to everyone, the subject of this thread was not about HOW the outcome is achieved but WHO is responsible for the outcome. I fail to see how a craps table can decide which bets win or lose; that makes no sense to me. So why so much time was spent arguing "for the craps table" strikes me as being absurd. The history of craps literally goes back to cave dwellers who marked bones and threw them. The gambler will still throw the bones to gamble. If the gambler did not throw the bones it would not be craps, but I digress.

If you can't control the random aspect of the game, you're simply not the only deciding factor in the game. You can control how much you bet, and how you throw the dice. If you could control the outcome then you would already know the end result before it happened. No craps player knows the end result before the throw, because there is a random element he/she can't control in the game. If there is a random aspect of any game, how does the player control or decide the outcome? Any craps player who honestly plays and bets with the thinking that he/she literally controls the fate of the outcome with their hand isn't thinking logically.

In all respect to you garthman83, and to Mr Arcimedes and MrMarcus and the others, the original question was "what casino game is decided only by the player?" Well, gentlemen, even though the game of craps is a random game (which is your argument) it is only decided by the player, who is the shooter. It all comes down to what the shooter rolls. Again, no one ever said that craps wasn't a random game. But the randomness does not decide a winner. The winner is decided only by the roll of the dice by the shooter. After all, how is a game decided? The randomness might prevent the shooter from throwing a winning number, but it still comes down to the shooter. In craps only the shooter throws the dice -- and there is no other deciding factor such as a shuffle or an RNG. Randomness does not create a winner-- not in any game that I've played in all my years.

I can certainly see the psychological advantage of rolling them bones yourself and how it makes you feel as if you control your own fate. It is the major reason craps is such a fun/social game. The loudest cheers and biggest groans are from the craps tables.

The problem is that garthman83, Mr Arcimedes and MrMarcus et. al. and myself feel that there is no mathematical advantage so it all comes down to personal preference as to what game better suits your personality.

"Remember this: The house doesn't beat the player. It just gives him the opportunity to beat himself."

Craps is also the only casino game where my powers of telekinesis are effective. I don't think it's a coincidence.

moredeals, you are just repeating the logic used by money. The problem you are having is not so much your understanding of craps, but your lack of understanding VP.

Every minute action or inaction of the VP player affects the final result just as it does in craps. Most people do not understand this is happening. They give responsibility of the result to the machine. That is why you constantly hear the nonsense of hot and cold machines.

It is this lack of understanding how VP machines operate that causes the confusion. If they could see the process in action, as you can see it with craps, then I think more people would understand.

Of course, some people also think dice are hot or cold too, so some people will never understand ... period.

I know what the original question was, and the correct answer is there is no casino game that is decided by only the player. The randomness actually does create the end result. After the shooter lets go of the dice. they no longer control the final outcome. If you're going to argue that "randomness" doesn't decided the result then your answer is still wrong. Multiple games would be the answer. Slots, Craps, VP, and many other game would all be correct answers. The slot player and video poker player would "decided" the outcome because he/she is the one that presses the button that "determines" the outcome. Just because "randomness" isn't a physical person doesn't mean it doesn't play into the final outcome. If it plays into the final outcome then it's also a deciding factor in the game.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I fully understand where you gentlemen are coming from with your points of view. I now accept what you are saying. So the next time I belly up to a craps table and find that I am the only player, and the dice are pushed to me... I will pass the dice over to "random" and see how "random" does. I am sure "random" is an excellent shooter. You gentlemen are indeed very, very smart knowing that "random" is the shooter who decides the game of craps.

I really think this comes down to a right/left brain thinking style.

https://www.funderstanding.com/content/right-brain-vs-left-brain

Those of us who are more left brain, analytical thinkers can easily dissect this situation and see the obvious functional similarities between craps and VP. Right brain thinkers will tend to be more intuitive and base their views on what it "feels" like.

In this case the analytical thinkers are completely correct since we are analyzing something that is simple and physical in nature. However, don't think this means I believe analytical thinkers are better, they are just different. An intuitive thinker makes a much better live poker player. They are also better negotiators, etc.

Fortunately, I play craps in a right brain casino. Thank you for your insights.