What casino game is decided only by the player?

In order for a game to be 100% decided by the player, the player would have to have control of all aspect of the game. In Craps the simple fact is once the player releases the dice he/she has no control of what the outcome of the roll will be. The true answer to your question is that no casino game is decided by only the player. The player has no deciding factor after the dice start to roll and therefore Craps isn't decided by only the player. Just my opinion though.

garthman, thanks. of course the player is the only one responsible for the dice's result. while it is a "random result" (Im putting dice influencing aside for a moment) the result of the dice depends only on how the shooter releases the dice...where it hits on the table, how it bounces etc. but all of that depends only on the shooter because the table doesnt move. the craps table doesnt have flippers or traps that catch the dice and shoot them out again like a pinball machine has.

the shooter is the only one who sets the dice on course and to its decision. even if the dice hit someone's hands, or the stickman's stick, the shooter threw the dice that hit someone's hand or the stickman's stick. the stickman does not use his stick to block the dice or to turn them over once they come to rest on the table.

the craps table, though it has a bounce to it, and pyramids to randomize the throw, and there may be a bump in the middle of the table surface to prevent sliding of the dice, are all "non movable parts." the only "motion" comes from the shooter who throws the dice. the dice of course dont move by themselves.

the "fun" part of all this is that you have no one else to blame but the shooter (yourself) when you lose, and no one else to thank when you win. it also makes craps the only game where "skill" can truly make a difference (if you believe in such a thing as skill in throwing dice). because even with skill in card counting and skill in poker, and skill in video poker, there are other variables that you cant control. in craps there are no "variables." there are "obstacles" but there are no variables because the craps table does not change or move. (well you can argue that the table surface changes after every throw of the dice but I won't go there.)

snidely, sorry if this goes in circles for you but dice players love the game for these reasons... you are playing a true game that is probably the "fairest game" in the casino because the casino or another player have so little influence on the results.

Seems to me the surface of every table can be slightly different. The air flow pattern can be different. The composition of the dice can even be a little different from casino to casino. The air pressure and temperature in the casino can also be different. Maybe even the location of the Moon has a slight gravitational effect or the altitude of the casino. I'm probably missing some more.

Sounds to me like Snidely is right.

With VP the result is solely determined by exactly when the player presses the deal/draw button. Of course, the player has no control of the current state of the RNG just as the craps player has no control over any of the aforementioned states. The result in both cases is a random result.

Right Snidely


Fugedaboudit !!!!


Rick

Arc, even if the table surfaces are different, the shooter still throws the dice.

Arc, when you play VP, you do not control the RNG. let me remind you of the "other thread" ----

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Quote
Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Arc do you think your knowledge of statistics influences the RNG in a video poker machine?

Of course not. My knowledge allows me to understand when a properly functioning RNG will give me an advantage over the casino. So, I don't need to "influence" anything, just understand the math.

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and YES, its a RANDOM result. But the issue is that in craps the player is the only one who determines the result, whether it is random or not. In VP, in blackjack, in roulette, the results can also be RANDOM but there are other variables such as a dealer, a wheel, an RNG.

so again, WHAT CASINO GAME IS DECIDED ONLY BY THE PLAYER?

Only craps, guys. Is that so difficult? They can all be random, but only in CRAPS does the game decision come from the player -- the shooter.

Geez.

The one you walk away from.

Sorry money, you are off in left field again. The craps player has no control over the result. He can only start the process of a random event. The VP player also has no control over the result. He can only start the process of another random event.

Same thing. In both cases all the player is doing is starting the process.

Arc, I didnt say the craps shooter has "control." I think we have a problem here with linguistics.

Again, the subject is: What casino game is decided only by the player?

And again, while the craps shooter does not control the dice, his throw is the only thing that determines how the dice will fall (land, finish, etc.) Certainly there are obstacles such as pyramids and bounce but these are "non active" meaning they do not move or adjust or change.

An RNG changes-- you do not get the same "cards" in each draw or deal, do you?

In craps the table does not change and only the "throw" of the dice changes which is in the hands of the shooter.

This does not mean that the shooter has any "control" but it does mean that the dice's results will be decided by how the player throws them.

Now, if the pyramids on the table changed shape or direction or actually moved then the result of the dice would not be based only on the shooter. but the table is a stable environment-- the only variable is how the shooter throws the dice.

This is not about control. I will agree with you that there is NO such things as "controlling dice." You might be able to "influence" dice, but NO one claims that they can control dice. Perhaps a machine could that can duplicate an exact throw to an exact position on the table. But I doubt a human could accomplish that.

If you would like to expand this discussion to include games in which the player has a greater chance of winning then yes I certainly agree that video poker is among those games along with blackjack and live poker, and roulette if you have a biased wheel or dealer to help you along.

By the way, I consider craps a game that is very, very difficult to win at. And the reason is that you only win one bet at a time, but you can lose all of your bets at a time. Also, at craps the payoffs are relatively small compared to what payoffs are on other games such as VP. In other words, on the regular craps layout your maximum payout is 30 to 1 so a $5 bet could win a maximum of $150, but in VP a $5 bet could win $4,000. (But with the firebet a $5 bet could win $5,000 but not all casinos have the fire bet.)

Money, I gave you several things that could change for the craps player. Just because they are small changes does not mean they can't have an impact. And, the table itself is the elephant in the room.

A table is not perfectly flat. It also has rounded corners. Each time the players throws he is hitting on a different part of the table and could get a slightly different bounce. Think of the table topology being the equivalent of the RNG.

Arc there is no disagreement from me that the table will make it impossible to control the dice. What you are missing here is that only the shooter propels the dice. The table does not move the dice. If a shooter throws a seven you can't blame the table. You can only blame the shooter. But it is different with an rng. You pick the cards that give you your best chances but the rng then does its thing. In craps the table doesn't change.