When your objective is to play for "score" or "ranking"

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Originally posted by: MoneyLA
Look roadtrip, please read again my original post. I simply referred a question that came out of a discussion with a friend of mine who is a craps player and lives in NY. As I said in the initial post: "This one came to me out of left field, because I never had any kind of discussion like this before." And I wrote: "OK, this is beyond me."

Well guys its still beyond me. And I dont care anymore. Ive done my job -- I referred a question. You gave me answers. It's over, and thank you very much.

but just as an aside: my friend as I said is a craps player who is very unhappy with how his tier score and comps are measured, and when I told him how my tier score and comps increased dramatically with the same budget playing VP it got his attention. My problem with getting rated at table games is that you, the player, must be vigilent and constantly monitor that your bets and time are being recorded properly. He has had the same problems.

Now roadtrip, in an attempt to answer your question, his goal was not to win money. his goal was to find a way to play a game where for a limited amount of money he could maximize tier points and comps. In other words, find a game that he could break even on every play -- and he could play a million hands and score a lot of points without a loss. he honestly doesnt give a hoot about video poker. he throws dice. he plays in AC and at Foxwoods and he plays every weekend. But when I tell him that here at the end of March I already have 80,000+ tier points (and he understands the system) he is amazed that his play at craps hasn't earned him anything like that.

thats how I understand his motivation. after this discussion, another friend of ours suggested finding a rapid roulette game that would give credit for both black and red simultaneous bets, since my other friend was told black/red would not be rated at a live game. the small house advantage on the black/red game would also fit his needs for what he wants to accomplish.

before I got into VP about five years ago, I only played craps. And I perfectly understand what is going on with craps players being "under rated."

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Originally posted by: crapshooter
MoneyLA

I apologize if this sounds redundant because I chose not to read 3 pages of bantering...

Here's the way I see it. Your friend is looking to maximize the ability to earn tier points with minimum effect on his bankroll.

You list 33.8% chance of a winning hand by holding a jack (about 1 in 3) vs. 28.7% with deuces (slightly more than 1 in 4).

However, I think it is better to list what the chances are of hitting a J by holding a J vs. hitting another 2 by holding the deuces. (for our sakes and purposes, I think it would be safe to assume the same proportional ratio of 1/3 for the Jack, and 1/4 for the deuces) Yes...you can't hit a royal holding the deuces, but you can't hit trip or quad deuces holding just the jack (because you'd be discarding 2 deuces)

Once again, I am keeping the idea of earning points in mind over proper strategy.

Yes, proper strategy dictates you keep the 2's

I will keep this in perspective of betting units (I will explain later on)

Thus, if your friend gets 60 hands of J 2 2 10 5. If the Jack was kept, 20 out of the 60 hands would pay even money. The rest would be lost. So 300 units wagered (5 units per draw, 30 draws), 20 hands pay even money, therefore, 100 units would return and 200 units lost.

Same 10 hands, but deuces are kept. If the 2 is kept instead of the Jack, then 15 hands would pay out. But it would pay out 15 units per hand. So, 300 units wagered, 15 hands won, 15 credits per winning hand, therefore 225 units won and 75 units lost.

Based on this analysis it pays to keep the deuce, even if the proportion was changed from 1/4 to 1/6, it still makes sense to play the deuces.

The last step is determining long term vs. short term. What denomination is being played? $1, $5, $100, $5,000?? In other words, if I play high denomination VP, I may not be looking for long term variance. If I was playing $5,000 per unit at max ($25,000 per dealt hand), and I was dealt J 2 2 10 5, I would be holding the Jack.

However, I don't think your friend would be playing that level. So I think it's still safe to say that correct strategy is the proper play. Only because it takes into account the rewards vs. the risk.

Sorry for the lengthy reply

-Shooter

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