While Obama sleeps

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Solar companies actually use their subsidies to create jobs. DuPont uses them to increase dividend checks.
I would say jobs are a better use of taxpayer funds.

But regardless...Boilerman has one standard of taxpayer funds going to companies he likes....and a different standard for companies he doesn't like. Thats a pretty common theme with the B-man


Whoa, wait a minute, I own stock in DD (which has done very well) and my dividend is being paid by the govt.? ReallY? I follow DD's news and I;ve never seen anything about them receiving a check from the Fed.

Also, why in the world would the Govt. be giving a check to make Barbies?
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Feel free to check my numbers on gasoline taxes (50 cents per gallon), ethanol subsidies (50 cents per gallon, miles per gallon of E-85 vs gasoline (25% less MPG), and the price in Indiana of the two fuels (currently $3.00 for E-85 and $3.60/gallon on gas).

Do a little math and I challenge you to tell me where I'm wrong.


Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
PJ, taking $5.33 and turning it into $3.60 does not create jobs. It simply removes $1.73 of wealth from the economy for every gallon of E-85 sold. The more gallons sold, the more wealth removed, and the fewer jobs required. Does paying a guy to dig a hole and another guy to fill in that very hole create jobs? Nope, it simply removes wealth, and costs jobs.


Making up math and employment statisitics on the fly does not create jobs...or make a remotely intelligent argument.

Earlier I said Boilerman will have different standards. He proved me right. And his rationalization is that its good for tax payers to give welfare checks to companies that are already profitable without those checks.



Er B Man, you are missing some ethanol discounts:

Tax break per gallon of fuel
Tax break for every dollar invested (actually its a shelter to offset profits)
Subsidies for growing crops used in ethanol production (other than corn products)
Tax break on state and local taxes for building plants, plus the federal subsidies

Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Solar companies actually use their subsidies to create jobs. DuPont uses them to increase dividend checks.
I would say jobs are a better use of taxpayer funds.

But regardless...Boilerman has one standard of taxpayer funds going to companies he likes....and a different standard for companies he doesn't like. Thats a pretty common theme with the B-man


Whoa, wait a minute, I own stock in DD (which has done very well) and my dividend is being paid by the govt.? ReallY? I follow DD's news and I;ve never seen anything about them receiving a check from the Fed.


They pay zero taxes...which is the same thing. So instead of paying taxes they send you a dividend check. Thank taxpayers next time you receive one.

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: jatki99
Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Solar companies actually use their subsidies to create jobs. DuPont uses them to increase dividend checks.
I would say jobs are a better use of taxpayer funds.

But regardless...Boilerman has one standard of taxpayer funds going to companies he likes....and a different standard for companies he doesn't like. Thats a pretty common theme with the B-man


Whoa, wait a minute, I own stock in DD (which has done very well) and my dividend is being paid by the govt.? ReallY? I follow DD's news and I;ve never seen anything about them receiving a check from the Fed.


They pay zero taxes...which is the same thing. So instead of paying taxes they send you a dividend check. Thank taxpayers next time you receive one.


I was being facetious. I know when a co. ends with with a zero balance at tax time it means they've done something to earn tax credits, correct? Such as some sort of cap.ex, or Rand D, or spending money of some sort,also correct? SO when a co. is plunking down cash for some type of research that qualifies for a tax credit that would involve hiring people to do the research and creating those jobs adds to the economy and that's also a good thing, correct? That's the whole reeason for tax credits(well supposed to be anyway).

I'm all for an overhaul of the tax code, lord knows it's why overdue but I'm tired of hearing about corp. welfare and giveaways like the govt. is actually passing out checks to every corporation on the block. Until something is done about all the high priced lobbyists, I doubt anything is gonna get done about the myriad of loopholes that are on the books today, all it takes is a skilled accountant.

Dividends are paid out of net income after taxes & are not part of a companies p&l, although it does reduce their cash balance
You are correct, there are many additional government giveaways for ethanol related reasons. I did include the subsidy of ethanol producers at 50 cents per gallon, but didn't include many others.

EVERY GAS STATION WHICH PUMPS E-85 was given over $70,000 to install a tank, piping and a pump system. My buddy has three stations and received over $210,000 in giveways himself alone. Chef is correct, the list of stupidity is very long.


Quote

Originally posted by: chefantwon
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Feel free to check my numbers on gasoline taxes (50 cents per gallon), ethanol subsidies (50 cents per gallon, miles per gallon of E-85 vs gasoline (25% less MPG), and the price in Indiana of the two fuels (currently $3.00 for E-85 and $3.60/gallon on gas).

Do a little math and I challenge you to tell me where I'm wrong.


Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
PJ, taking $5.33 and turning it into $3.60 does not create jobs. It simply removes $1.73 of wealth from the economy for every gallon of E-85 sold. The more gallons sold, the more wealth removed, and the fewer jobs required. Does paying a guy to dig a hole and another guy to fill in that very hole create jobs? Nope, it simply removes wealth, and costs jobs.


Making up math and employment statisitics on the fly does not create jobs...or make a remotely intelligent argument.

Earlier I said Boilerman will have different standards. He proved me right. And his rationalization is that its good for tax payers to give welfare checks to companies that are already profitable without those checks.



Er B Man, you are missing some ethanol discounts:

Tax break per gallon of fuel
Tax break for every dollar invested (actually its a shelter to offset profits)
Subsidies for growing crops used in ethanol production (other than corn products)
Tax break on state and local taxes for building plants, plus the federal subsidies


Here are the basics of this new solar program at Indianapolis Airport.

1. IPL produces through electricity through traditional methods for 2 cents per kwh.
2. IPL sells electricity for 8 cents per kwh
3. IPL is required by the government to buy this solar electricity at a cost of 29 cents per kwh.

PJ, do you actually believe that turning 29 cents into 2 cents is good for the economy? That money would have been spent elsewhere and a fair and equitable transfer of value would have happened.


"Indianapolis Power & Light will buy the solar farm's power. The sun-generated power will cost three to four times more than IPL can sell it for, so the utility will subsidize the difference by raising rates to its customers, a utility official said. The increase in electric bills to subsidize the solar farm amounts to several cents a month on the average customer bill, the utility has said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/10/21/indianapolis-airport-solar-farm-is-largest-of-its-kind/3143705/







Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Solar companies actually use their subsidies to create jobs. DuPont uses them to increase dividend checks.
I would say jobs are a better use of taxpayer funds.

But regardless...Boilerman has one standard of taxpayer funds going to companies he likes....and a different standard for companies he doesn't like. Thats a pretty common theme with the B-man


Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Here are the basics of this new solar program at Indianapolis Airport.

1. IPL produces through electricity through traditional methods for 2 cents per kwh.
2. IPL sells electricity for 8 cents per kwh
3. IPL is required by the government to buy this solar electricity at a cost of 29 cents per kwh.

PJ, do you actually believe that turning 29 cents into 2 cents is good for the economy? That money would have been spent elsewhere and a fair and equitable transfer of value would have happened.


"Indianapolis Power & Light will buy the solar farm's power. The sun-generated power will cost three to four times more than IPL can sell it for, so the utility will subsidize the difference by raising rates to its customers, a utility official said. The increase in electric bills to subsidize the solar farm amounts to several cents a month on the average customer bill, the utility has said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/10/21/indianapolis-airport-solar-farm-is-largest-of-its-kind/3143705/



??? You are using an anecdote to make a broad point? I can play too!
El Paso Energy is buying solar power for half the price it pays for coal energy.
El Paso wants 15% solar but 2016

"The utility signed a 20-year power purchase agreement with the massive Macho Springs solar plant in New Mexico, a 50 megawatt (MW) facility with the capacity to power more than 18,000 homes. According to the agreement, signed last year, EPE would buy solar power from Macho Springs for 5.79 cents a kilowatt-hour — less than half the 12.8 cents per kilowatt-hour average price for electricity from new coal plants, according to Bloomberg."

But to answer your question: Yes! I do think new industries and technology are good for the economy and job creation.

Boilerman can pretend the alternative energy sector does not create jobs or hire anybody. Whatever helps him sleep at night.
Boilerman cant pretend that he has a single standard when it comes to classifying the way government gives money to corporations. He has put his double standard on full display in this thread.
I'm all for a good deal, and New Mexico's deal sounds far better. I'd be interested to see the subsidies that the company receives, however. Also, I still bet that they are overpaying vs their cost. By the way the current average price for electricity is 8.74 cents per kwh in New Mexico, not 12.8 cents. Also, the only reason that a new coal plant will produce high cost electricity is because of Obama policies.

In Hawaii, solar likely makes sense, and I'm for it. I'm not expensive electricity and in our state we have access to plenty of cheap coal and natural gas.

Quote

Originally posted by: pjstroh
Quote

Originally posted by: Boilerman
Here are the basics of this new solar program at Indianapolis Airport.

1. IPL produces through electricity through traditional methods for 2 cents per kwh.
2. IPL sells electricity for 8 cents per kwh
3. IPL is required by the government to buy this solar electricity at a cost of 29 cents per kwh.

PJ, do you actually believe that turning 29 cents into 2 cents is good for the economy? That money would have been spent elsewhere and a fair and equitable transfer of value would have happened.


"Indianapolis Power & Light will buy the solar farm's power. The sun-generated power will cost three to four times more than IPL can sell it for, so the utility will subsidize the difference by raising rates to its customers, a utility official said. The increase in electric bills to subsidize the solar farm amounts to several cents a month on the average customer bill, the utility has said."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/10/21/indianapolis-airport-solar-farm-is-largest-of-its-kind/3143705/



??? You are using an anecdote to make a broad point? I can play too!
El Paso Energy is buying solar power for half the price it pays for coal energy.
El Paso wants 15% solar but 2016

"The utility signed a 20-year power purchase agreement with the massive Macho Springs solar plant in New Mexico, a 50 megawatt (MW) facility with the capacity to power more than 18,000 homes. According to the agreement, signed last year, EPE would buy solar power from Macho Springs for 5.79 cents a kilowatt-hour — less than half the 12.8 cents per kilowatt-hour average price for electricity from new coal plants, according to Bloomberg."

But to answer your question: Yes! I do think new industries and technology are good for the economy and job creation.

Boilerman can pretend the alternative energy sector does not create jobs or hire anybody. Whatever helps him sleep at night.
Boilerman cant pretend that he has a single standard when it comes to classifying the way government gives money to corporations. He has put his double standard on full display in this thread.


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