Why play for the long term when...

That's not necessarily true. For example, there are a ton of full pay DB & DDB games in Vegas that are theoretically positive out of the box. All of the examples I can think of also have cash back that ranges from .1-.3125%. Some in this group also send out mailers.

Everyone has their own interest and motivation for playing. In my case, I'm with Snidely on this "if the game is long term negative why play it at all?"

OTOH, if you're playing a negative expectation game, playing optimal strategy provides the benefit of losing less in the long term. Same holds true for BJ.....dealt pair of 8's against a dealer face and basic strategy says to split. Why? It's not to win more but to lose less. Sometimes, that's as good as it gets.

Dan

Hooters wants max bet at the VP bar to comp a drink. So does that little dive bar between Bill's and Battista's Hole In The Wall. Those two places are non-playable in my opinion. My wife likes nice glassware, too. Drinks in plastic cups are definitely downgraded. Last time I was there, Venetian/Palazzo had free flowing cocktails in nice glasses served by beautiful women. It was a home run!

Doing the math off the top of my head... With two pair, you have one draw to get one of the 4 cards of the remaining 47 in the deck you need to improve your hand to a full house, so a 4/47 or 1 in 12 chance. With one pair, you have three chances to get 2 of the remaining 47 cards to make 4oaK. So that a 2/47 chance (1 in 24) to get 3oaK in the first slot or 1 in 24 again for the second slot or combined 1 in 12 we had before for a full house. Now for the 4oaK we need 1 card of the remaining 46 so that's a combined 1 in 12 and 1 in 46 to go from a pair to a 4oaK or 1 in 552.

In the short term we have a 1 in 552 for a four of a kind.
In the long term we have a 1 in 12 for a full house.
I'll take with long term with much more frequent hits and 46 full houses for every four of a kind.

Again, the math is off the top of my head and I'm not looking at the credits earned for 3oaK vs FH vs 4oaK. But it should give a rough idea of what to expect in the short and long terms.

The cocktail waitresses didn't care as long as they got their $1 for bring the drink and you met their rules of free drinks while playing a machine. I can see how at places like Hard Rock, management will see what's happening and start to care and change the rules to make the CW a bit more strict on what constitutes gambling in order to get the free drinks.

My local 15/9 pNSUD game also calls for holding both pairs. But in my local 12/8 Shockwave (or any Shockwave game for that matter), you choose one pair to hold while in shockwave mode. If the 2P is HP/LP the pair you hold of course is the high pair.

Note to KTN....deuces