Question of the Day 2017-05-20

On a couple of occasions I have walked away from a video poker machine and forgot to cash out a pretty substantial ticket. Once, I hurried back and was able to cash out; the other time I thought I had and didn’t notice that there was no ticket in my pocket until much later, by which time someone else had cashed it out. Which leads to the question, why can’t casinos simply keep your current balance right on your players card? That way you wouldn’t have to monkey around with tickets at all. Are any casinos considering doing this? They already do it with your free-play, so it must be possible, and since you have to enter a PIN, even it you misplace your card, no one else would be able to get to your money.

[Editor's Note: This QoD is written by our favorite slot expert, John Robison, who also happens to be the expert cited in the title of our book -- and his -- The Slot Expert's Guide to Playing Slots.]

First things first. I've come up with a procedure for myself to ensure that I don't leave money in a machine.

When I'm finished playing, I cash out and put the ticket on the button deck or screen, then write the results in my logbook by looking at the ticket, not the credit meter. I pull my player card and take the ticket and I'm on my way.

I used to go to Caesars Palace frequently in the late 1990s-early 2000s. In addition to plenty of 9/6 Jacks machines in affordable denominations, Caesars had a funds transfer system called Caesars Request.

As I recall, I went to the cage to sign a marker before I started playing. Instead of taking the money, I had them deposit it into my Request account.

To play a machine, I first put in my Request card. I then entered my PIN and instructed the system to transfer a certain amount to the machine. After the funds were transferred, I took out my Request card and put in my player card. When I was done playing, I put my Request card back in to transfer my credits into my account again.

Once a transfer was made, the credit meter was essentially locked and could not be cashed out. Any credits on the machine had to be transferred out to a Request account. Caesars sent you a transaction log each month that your account had activity.

Caesars Palace doesn't have the system anymore. I couldn't find anything online about Caesars discontinuing the service.

Cashless gaming used to be the rule in Washington state. Before 2007, if you wanted to play slots in Washington's tribal casinos, you had to go to the cashier and have your bankroll added to a smart card. Their slots back then weren't allowed to accept cash.

Returning to Las Vegas, the Nevada Gaming Commission approved the use of prepaid access cards three years ago. To get a card, you have to register at the casino with valid ID. The access card is linked to your loyalty card. You have to go to your bank to add money to the card. Your winnings, moreover, are added to the card, so you don't have to carry large amounts of cash after hitting a jackpot.

That's a separate card, separate system.

Using the player card isn't an option today. Slot club systems are designed to track how much you play on a machine and how much the machine pays you. They don't track how much cash you put into or cashed out of a machine. If you look at section 2.040, Meters for Gaming Devices in Nevada's Technical Standards, each machine has meters to report funds transferred into and out of the machine, but the slot club software doesn't currently capture those meters.

If your player account also were to include a funds component, it would become like a bank account and your player card like an ATM card. New layers of security would have to be added to your player account to control access to the funds component.

The advantage of Caesars' Request system was that you didn't have to carry around cash or coins. Tickets provide the same advantage, although you do need cash for your initial bankroll. I suspect tickets caused the demise of Caesars Request. You do have to remember to cash out when you're finished playing, but that's the same responsibility we've had, well, since slot machines existed. I've heard plenty of stories of players actually forgetting to cash out their coins from a machine (especially when they got drunk while playing). But it's been especially true since credit play was introduced. Even in a system with non-cashable credits like Caesars Request, someone could play off credits you forgot to transfer back to your account.

I haven't heard of any manufacturer adding a funds-tracking component to their loyalty software and I haven't heard of a casino gearing up to accept prepaid access cards. TITO saved casinos millions by eliminating coins. These other systems aren't going to save money, so I don't expect to see them anytime soon.

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Comments

Jeff B. May-20-2017

Left Tickets in Machines

I've done this twice now where I've been distracted by either another person in my party or maybe my dinner reservation was past, but it does happens.   One time, I didn't even realize I had left it.   A few hours later, a casino employee approached me and wanted to verify my identify.  They had found the ticket still in the machine and were able to track me down by using my players card.  

Another time, I realized what I had done so went to security.  They directed to the cashier who was able to track the play on the machine I lost it on, check the ticket number that printed, and was able to confirm the ticket hadn't been cashed.  They then cancelled that ticket and cashed it out.

They can track a lot by your players card if you use it consistently and with everything computerized, if you can remember where, when, and approximately how much, they'll work with you to get your money back.  

And if this does happen to you, don't forget to tip everyone involved!

[email protected] May-20-2017

Please Comment!

You can even join as a "free" member. Log in to make comments. Also: Remember to cash tickets in before you leave Vegas or the casino. To my knowledge, you can't do it by mail!

Kevin C May-20-2017

Some establishments DO work that way

Last year my wife and I cruised to Alaska o Holland America line. The onboard casino operated the way the questioner suggested. I found it odd at first but later quite convenient. One card was your cabin door key, slot club card, and slot BANK card. So it definitely IS possible.

[email protected] May-20-2017

My QOD

Wow, my first QOD!  The idea of cashing out first and then filling in my log book is a good one.  Actually both times I left a ticket is when I filled out my log book, pulled my card (and reinserted it to see how many points I had earned) and then forgot the ticket.  I'm now trying to always remember to cash out first and then take care of all the record keeping.

Batdorf - that's good information.  I just assumed "my bad" and chalked it up to experience.  Sounds like if I had gone to the cashier they may have been able to make me whole.  Good to know if I ever slip up in the future.

The access card sounds interesting.  When I take a marker, I always am given a ticket, but maybe if I had such a card I could have them load the marker onto it.

I do routinely have $700-$1,300 of free play which I cash in off my players card at the end of the trip, but since that's directly related to tracking play, I can see that it's different.

I appreciate the response and comments!

[email protected] May-20-2017

Some already do this

Here in the UK the genting casinos use this method currently, all winnings go on to your players card which you then cash out by going to the cage. Weird at first but youd never lose winnings even if you left your card in.

Ray May-20-2017

cash out tickets

Similar to batdorf, I walked away from a machine. When I went to another and couldn't find my ticket I realized I forgot to cash out. I ran back to the machine and saw that the amount I had left had been cashed out. I called security, the casino checked everything, verified that the ticket was cashed out and then taken to a cashout machine, and there was nothing they could do about it. I was thinking that they could have reviewed the tapes and gotten a lead on the guy who cashed it, but they didn't feel the need to go any further. I guess I wasn't important enough and my $35 ticket and my history as a small amount player wasn't big enough for them to make an effort. My small play doesn't include them anymore (even though it was my own fault for leaving the ticket in the first place).

Kevin Rough May-20-2017

Turning Stone used to do this.

Turning Stone in Upstate New York used to do this.  Your players card had to be in the machine to play since you played from the balance on your card.  Any winnings went directly to the card.  When you were done, you could leave the casino and leave any money on your card or go to the cashier and cash out.

They stopped this around 3 years ago.  One reason is that they had to pay extra people to keep it working.  If you wanted to add money you needed to find someone with a cart or a kiosk to add money.  Plus then you had to walk away from the machine.  And you might decide not to continue playing.

Llew May-20-2017

Left ticket in machine

After I had done this once and was unable to recover the money (a woman sat down and played with the credits I had left behind), I made a habit of ALWAYS hitting the "cash out" button before I pull my card, even if I know I have 0 credits left.  Haven't left cash in a machine since.

Question of the Day - 20 May 2017

Comments