Question of the Day 2017-06-12

In your Question of the Day on May 15, you conclude that in craps, "Most importantly, odds is the only bet you'll find that has exactly 0% house advantage, so remember to take/lay those odds no matter which side you’re on!" Can you explain this to me, a novice, as to how this works.

[Editor's Note: This answer is provided by our young-guy-inside-the-pit Andrew Uyal, who's written all the answers to questions on craps that we've fielded over the past couple of months.]

If you're just getting into playing craps, odds is an absolute necessity to have in your betting arsenal. Here's how it works.

After the point is established, you’re allowed to take odds on your pass line bet. You'll put some additional money down behind the bet and get paid true odds depending on what the point is. We discussed true odds in passing on our previous question from 5/13/17, when we said the "any seven" bet pays 5 for 1 instead of its true odds, 5 to 1. But on the odds bet, the house pays true odds.

Now, different casinos have different rules on how much odds you can take. Because it lessens the house advantage, lowering the amount of odds you can take is increasingly popular. The industry standard at the moment is called 3/4/5. That means you can take 3x odds if the point is 4 or 10, 4x odds on 5 and 9, and 5x odds on 6 and 8. The reason for this is true odds on 4 and 10 pays more than 5 and 9, which in turn pays more than 6 and 8.

Some casinos, like Wynn, have reduced the limit on all odds to only 2x. However, houses still exist where you can take 10x, or 20x odds. At the Cromwell, they'll go all the way up to 100x odds!

So, because it pays greater than even money, with no house edge, the more you bet, the more it cuts into the edge of your pass line bet. With just single odds (1x), you cut the house edge from 1.41% down to 0.00848%. With full 100x odds, the edge goes down to a negligible 0.00021%!

Now, obviously, with a limit as high as 100x, bankroll issues come into play. Even on a $5 minimum table, that's $500 odds every time you get a point. Not everyone can afford this. But, if you can, you're playing at a miniscule, albeit existant, negative expectation. And if you can't, as I said, even single odds greatly reduces the edge.

These same numbers apply to come bets with odds, and in reverse for the don't pass/don't come (on the dark side, it's called "laying" odds.)

At this point, I think we can all agree that odds is the most important bet you can place on a dice table. Give it a try, and you'll love getting paid true odds!

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Comments

Jun-12-2017

Answer is defective

Sorry to have to comment negatively on Andrew Uyal's answer, but it is lacking, and contains a common mis-truth. The mis-truth is the same one I've seen every author make about Odds. He says (like all of them) that an Odds bet is placed behind the Pass Line bet. But in fact, it's placed IN FRONT OF the Pass Line bet, in the "tarmac" area of the table, not in the marked layout (which is the table's "live playing field"). If you put an Odds bet behind your Pass Line bet, it will sit in the Don't Pass area, which is not what you want. The other thing lacking in the answer is that it doesn't say clearly and directly how much will be paid for an Odds bet. If you bet $10 on the Pass Line and add a $20 Odds bet, and you win, after the dealers pay you $10 for your Pass Line bet, will they pay you $20 for your Odds bet, or some other amount? This is part of what the guy wants to know but doesn't; the answer given doesn't say what he needs to hear. Saying he'll be paid "true odds" doesn't help.

Barry Inciong Jun-12-2017

AL's comment is defective

Odds bets ARE placed BEHIND the pass line bet.  This is why as you point out, all authors say the same thing because it is correct and universally understood.  "Back-up your bet" is something you'll commonly hear dealers remind players to do, because the bet gets placed in back.

Odds pay 2-1 on 4 & 10, 3-2 on 5 & 9 and 6-5 on 6 & 8.  Those are "true odds" and equate to to the outcome probability (versus the 7).

[email protected] Jun-12-2017

More Info

Since the questioner identifies as a novice, I think some more info should be added to the answer.  Barry gave the true odds.  Because 5 & 9 have 3-2 odds, the odds bet must be even to get the true odds paid.  So if you're betting $5 on the pass line, if the point is 5, you'll want to bet $6 instead of $5 odds even if you're taking single odds.  Likewise, for the 6 and 8 your odds bet needs to be a multiple of 5 or you won't get the true odds.

Another, important reason for the 3-4-5 times odds is that it means all bets with full odds will get the same payoff, lessening the chance of a mistake by the dealers.  For instance, if you are betting $5 on the pass line, then you'll bet $15 at 2-1, $20 at 3-2, or $25 at 6-5.  If you calculate the payoffs you'll see that all the winning bets would pay $35 ($5 for your pass line bet and $30 for your odds bet), regardless of the point number.

Ray Jun-12-2017

to add to the comments

I understand the comments made, and it is information that needs to be told, but I also think saying that the most important bet you can make is the odds bet is patently untrue. Because if you do not bet pass/don't pass or come/don't come, you are not allowed to make the odds bet. Since the questioner is a novice, it must be made clear to him/her that you must play the line first. THAT is the most important bet because it is the bet that allows you to make the odds bet.

Jeffrey Small Jun-13-2017

[email protected]

Finally, I'm glad that AL's misunderstanding of Craps was addressed.  Obviously, he is not a regular player or he would not have accused Mr. Uyal of writing "mis-truths".  However, there is one part of the original answer which I think should be stated, to avoid any misunderstanding.  Craps is still a negative expectation game, just like the others. As stated by another comment, you still have to make a pass line (or don't pass) bet to receive the true odds.  Thus, if you do not win your pass line (or don't pass) bet, which has a house advantage, you will not win your odds bet.  Thus, as Mr. Uyal states, the house advantage on an odds bet, while minimal, is still there.  So, you will never truly have an "even" opportunity against the house in this game!

Question of the Day - 12 June 2017

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