Question of the Day - 31 July 2023

 The bean counters have almost completely ruined the Vegas many of us loved. 6/5 blackjack,decimation of video poker, rip off "resort fees", paid parking, early check-in fees, sky high room/show/dining rates. The sad thing is that most who visit Vegas now seem to have no problem with the expense of visiting Vegas. These are the things that can and possibly will kill Vegas.

and it's the same with triple-zero roulette, crapless craps, "no-change" slot tickets, drink comp meters, reduced comp point schedules, and proliferating "garbage" fees.

Recognizing the changes in the rules of blackjack does require some knowledge and maybe a little math. But for recreational players, it doesn’t matter much.

Triple 0 roulette on the other hand, requires no special knowledge or math  to realize that it’s a bed bed. But it flourishes.

That being the case, do you really think there’s any chance that 6-5 blackjack ever will go away?

To be replaced by 1:1 blackjack. You'll be able to find it right next to the eight-zero roulette tables.

to the first 2 comments, the elimination of buffets and cafes (food courts aren't good replacements imho) and, at least at Caesars properties, far fewer VP machines: according to vp.com, only 28 at Flamingo where I stay, 14 at Cromwell and none at the Linq, to name a few. They love biting the hands that feed them.

Visitation and gaming revenue hitting all-time highs. Watching and waiting gleefully for Vegas to get punished for its choices is going to take awhile, better get comfortable.

6-5 is a scourge for sure.... but if your out with a bunch of friends and the time feels right and everyone sits at a table you don't want to be running across town to a locals joint as by the time you all pile into a cab, find a table, the mood is gone. 

You can somewhat self justify playing at 6-5 "well I would normally be tipping the waitress $5/drink, she gets $3, I didn't pay for a cab,  etc". Low table min.

Its all the other crappy things, auto shuffling machines. $25/min, can't double after split, Dealer does not hit soft 17, Split up to 4 times, forced side bets, 

Part of the experience is talking to other players, bullshitting with the dealer - ETG which do have lower min don't have any of that. 

I was in vegas staying at the Venetian = $50 min with automatic shuffling machine and 6-5 , NFW. It felt just like that scene from Vegas Vacation where the dealer tells Chevy - how about I take half and then take you out back and kick you in the nuts. We both win. 

People keep playing 6/5 everywhere I go.  The comment in today's QoD  
"In fact, some arithmetic-challenged players believe that 6-5 is better than 3-2, since the numbers are bigger." Is sad but true.  

Some years ago a fast food chain came out with a 1/3 lb burger to get ahead of the competitor's 1/4 lb burger.  It didn't work because (Ready for this???) people also thought that since "3" is smaller than "4" the 1/3 lb burger was SMALLER than the 1/4 lb. burger. Same "logic".  Can't make this up.  

Maybe the few remaining casinos with 3/2 can help "sell" 3/2 to the mathematically challenged by changing the payout to "6/4" or even better, "9/6 Blackjack".

I mean, all the cool people are playing the 21/14 tables now. Get with the program!

Why worry about the payoff,  Don't play.  Your lucky your not getting 1-1 playing BORING-BORING 21.  HAVE FUN - play PAI GOW if you can find a seat..
rip---James Riddle Hoffa

The ONLY reason casinos had good rules for BJ was because most of the players didn't play good basic strategy. The casino probably figured on 4% or so, so they could afford to draw you into the game. Once good basic strategy was figured out, still not enough people learned it and played by it. Now that things have changed and a greater majority of people use basic and are good at it, the percentages went down. Eliminating many good rules does 2 things. It increases their theoretical hold, and it gets the players that hurt their profits to not play. Even the bad game is a lower hold than slots, and even probably lower than 2 zero roulette, so newbies probably still see it as a better game than most other popular games in the casino. YOU won't play, but many others will...for many reasons.

I can forsee a time, soon, when all games under $100 min bet will be virtual.  Think about how fast Azure's assets were snapped up.

The only way players can eliminate a bad game is to not play it and persuade others to not play it.  Once the suits see few players at their blackjack tables and many playing other games, they'll start the tortuous (for them) process of actually thinking about what they're offering.

If enough chumps keep playing the bad games, they'll keep offering them.

But it's an individual decision.  I don't play 6/5 blackjack, I don't play poor video poker pay tables.

As for "killing Vegas" overall, there have always been the prophets of doom, and there will always be chumps who don't know any better or don't care. 

Buffets are gone, so waiting in line and service at sit down restaurants make you late to check out, so they charge a fee for late check out.

"(food courts aren't good replacements imho)? In NOBODY'S opinion are food COURTS... err halls a better sub for buffets EXCEPT for the casinos charging the absolutely outrageous prices for mostly very AVG. fast food you can get anywhere else in America for half the price OR better. From what I can tell most of the business down at the $15 hamburger and $15 fried chicken places is done by folks under 30 who have ZERO concept of VALUE when it comes to food and drink choices...And those DOPES are the future of Vegas. Casinos are not in the business of marketing or much caring to seasoned citizens that will drop dead within 10-15 years. It's a long term play for them....

All casinos in the Phoenix and Tucson areas deal 3/2 blackjack. The one exception is Harrah's in Maricopa (a Caesars property), and that's only at a few tables that are open only on weekends. Moral of the story: go to Las Vegas to play live poker or video poker, but play blackjack lically.

Word of mouth, i.e. word on casino gambling boards such as LVA (sorry) almost always results in that 'best kept secret' being destroyed in due time.  Casino managers read this stuff.

I recall (a decade or two ago, the old forums) posts bragging about the great VP pay schedule found by this or that poster.  I thought at the time that they need to shut the f*** up about it.  It was good news for the Vegas visitor-to-be, but surely served to decimate the good games slowly but surely.  Not the only thing, of course, but impactful.

Candy

Will the same be for Triple Zero Roulette, Casino War, and other Casino Carnival Games? 

Are there any BJ tables without Side Bets? Players are drawn to tables for the large payouts. One result is that 6-5 is less noticeable.  Conversely, 000 (it's better - right!)draws the curious. 

All your commentors gave excellent retorts to the outrageous situation in blackjack and other gaming in Vegas in recent years. And, your QOD stated a painful conclusion for me personally: “I am done. I have visited 2 or 3 times a year since 1980. But if I cannot play the game I enjoy, the other amenities, the restaurants, and the shows are not enough to justify my visit even though I am comped.” 

A lot of people reason, "It doesn't really matter what blackjacks pay; my card counting system will make money anyway." In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons 6-5 became the mainstay was to fight back against the counters, or at least, everyone who thinks they can count.

If you want 3:2, the El Cortez has it.  And the El Cortez has possibly the lowest requirement around for dollars needed to be gambled in order to get free rooms.

Simple answer people are STUPID and don't take the time to learn the game and it's payouts. If people refused to play 6-5 it would disappear. You can't fix stupid 6-5 sounds so much better than3-2.

6:5 players either don't know or don't care, for multiple reasons...and haven't for 25+ years in Vegas and elsewhere; these lousy 6:5 games ( along with some additional carny BJ games with voodoo side bets, wheel spins, exotic variants, on and on) do nothing but hike the house edge. No wonder the casinos love them, as it nearly quadruples the house edge for even the decent basic strategy players vs 3:2 (all other factors/ rules being roughly equal). Learn basic strategy and vote with your wallet...and refuse to play 6:5 games. Or go to a bad buffet, or some other alternate method to beat your head against the wall.

I agree with most of your points, except the last - the casinos are playing the short game. They are exploiting everyone they can to the extent that they can without concern for building a loyal customer base.  They are maximizing profits now so the corporate shareholders are happy and leadership earns the big salaries and bonuses.  As the economy is in better shape than was expected, this tact works great, and there is no reason to change until circumstances, particularly the economy and/or people's patience with bad value change.  

At that point I think will likely shift to providing some of the value that we saw in the past, and bring in a new generation with what will appear to be fantastic deals.  The pendulum will swing. 
 For now, they really don't have to look that far ahead, it isn't in the corporate mindset.  And as for us older dogs, they really don't care, loss of our loyalty is a minimal blip.

As I was quoted above, "If you can't, or won't, bother to learn basic strategy, then you deserve 6-5."

It's so easy to learn and many/most don't bother.