California craps vs Vegas craps

I’ve never seen a good analysis of California craps (Indian casinos located in California like Rincon) and Vegas craps. Can you have one of your contributors opine of the positives and negatives of the two as a comparison?

[Editor's Note: For this answer, we turned to the inimitable Michael "Wizard of Odds" Shackleford. You can access a lot more information like this about casino games in his book Gambling 102, which was updated last year.]

California has a regulation against using dice alone to determine the outcome of a bet. So casinos have implemented various ways they integrate both cards and dice to represent a throw of the dice.

At Agua Caliente and Fantasy Springs they use 12 cards, ace through six from two separate decks with different color backs (for example, red and blue). They shuffle each color deck and lay those cards out in a random order. Then two dice are rolled, one red and one, which determine the two cards that get turned over. If the player rolls a red 4 and a blue 6, then the 4th red card and the 6th blue card are turned up. The values on those cards represent the roll.

There are other ways of doing it, but if both cards and dice are involved, the odds are the same as in conventional craps with dice only. The method used at the Pauma, without dice, but with a joker that matches the value of the first card drawn, also mimics the odds of conventional craps exactly.

However, at Viejas and San Manuel, when last I checked, they play Card Craps, which uses a shoe of many cards, either 264 or 324 (I keep getting conflicting information on the exact number), all numbered ace to six, and draw two at random without replacement to represent a roll. This introduces a small effect of removal, which does change the odds slightly. If the cards aren't shuffled after every “roll,” then the card counter can gain an advantage. Space does not allow me to say more on that.

To conclude, unless you're playing Card Craps at Viejas or San Manuel, the odds are exactly the same. If there's any negative, perhaps some players don’t find it as exciting as conventional craps.

With Card Craps, the odds on some bets are better and on some are worse. Please visit my website, WizardOfOdds.com, for more information about that.

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rokgpsman Oct-20-2020

What's the deal?

Is the reason for the California regulation of not allowing dice alone to be used for playing craps due to some kind of security or anti-cheating concern?

Jackie Oct-20-2020

@ rokgpsman

Maybe you were not aware but California legislatures are all escaped prisoners from the State Insane Asylum. Smartass answer aside, they do act like such.  In fact they have gotten so crazy with laws that people are fleeing California for greener pastures by the hundreds of thousands.  Yes the forest fires do contribute to the exodus but that is a minimal amount of those fleeing.  This is one of the reasons the census count was stopped as it effects the Electoral vote count.

That Don Guy Oct-20-2020

re: What's the deal?

Every casino in California has to operate under a compact (a fancy word for contract or treaty) between the tribe operating the casino and the state government. The "standard" compact only allows for five types of gambling: "gaming devices" (e.g. slot machines, video poker), card games (including "house-banked" games that are normally illegal in California), bingo (under the same restrictions as nonprofits that can run bingo in California), lotteries, and horse racing (again, under the same restrictions as other "satellite horse racing" locations in the state). Roulette and craps are not included, so they have to find a way to turn them into "card games."

Even at that, some compacts - Graton, just north of San Francisco, for example - specifically ban "all forms of roulette" and "any game that uses physical dice," so the version of craps that just uses cards is allowed but the one where dice are thrown and then "converted" to cards is not.

Jackie Oct-20-2020

Not 100% correct

That Don Guy
It all started when California forbade any reservation gaming. The Tribes sued and won as California did have gambling only in the forms of card rooms, State Lottery, track horse racing, and Bingo. The Tribes won but all of their gambling had to be by California rules except for one exception fought over and won was house banked card games like Let It Ride, 21, Three Card Poker.  All slots including VP are Bingo games, just check the "Pay Schedule" on any machine and you will see which Bingo wins which amount.  The Tribes do not have lotteries as the State does but uses what are called "Pull Tabs" equal to Scratchers but no Lotto.  Since that win against California there has been a constant push to use real slot and VP games instead of a Bingo equivalent, I don't know if they ever won that exception.  However I do remember a huge legal battle over the State confiscating a shipment of non Bingo style slot machines.

Kevin Lewis Oct-20-2020

ELEVENTY TRILLION PEOPLE

...have left California!!!! And it's all due to the actions of the state legislature!!!!!!!! The stats showing that CA's population has been rising at an average of 1/2 a percent a year are just FAKE NOOZE.

California's relationship with tribal casinos has always been a little rocky, since many have wondered why California needs casinos at all, given that most of the population lives within an afternoon's drive, or a hour's flight, of Las Vegas or Reno.

AyeCarambaPoker Oct-20-2020

Stupid rule

Can’t use solely dice? What a stupid rule - isn’t it also illegal to put squirrels down your pants for the purposes of gambling? Although I may have mixed up my jurisdictions between California and Springfield!

Land of the free my argh I’ve run out of space

Question of the Day - 20 October 2020

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