Why Did a Pit Boss Demand All Kinds of ID from a Pai Gow Player?

Recently I was playing Pai Gow poker when this individual sitting next to me received a royal flush. The award was over $1,200. No W-2G was given him; however the pit boss requested identification. The man gave some ID and the pit boss came back later saying the ID did not show his home address. So he gave up more ID that showed his address and the pit was now able to give him his payday. What's with all of the ID required by the casino?

[Editor's Note: This answer was graciously provided by Andrew Uyal, who most of you know by now is a floor supervisor at the Cromwell (when it's open) and author of our book The Blackjack Insiders.]

Sometimes it’s difficult to explain a specific situation like this. Plenty of rules, regulations, and procedures are in place. Let’s face it though, strange things happen outside of those procedures all the time. With that in mind, let’s see if we can get to the bottom of it.

First off, $1,200 is a commonly known threshold for tax papers -- because of royal flushes on video poker. Indeed, $1,200 on any one hand/spin/play will warrant a W-2G on a slot machine.

The threshold to receive a W-2G on a table game is different. The payout must exceed $600 and exceed odds of 300-1.

This alone explains why there was no W-2G. The payout for royals on Pai Gow (from the Fortune Bonus) is 150-1, so no paperwork.

Now, as to why the player was required to give additional ID before receiving the payout, it’s a little more complicated. There are many additional bets on table games nowadays. Many Pai Gow tables, for instance, have a progressive on the table. When players hit these progressives, ID is required for the manager to validate the jackpot, even on small payouts.

This is where speculation comes into play, assuming the progressive was in play. Since the payout was over $1,200 and no paperwork was given, we can assume a $5 bet, because anything less would have warranted paperwork. Most of the new progressives are $5 minimums anyway.

If this was the case, the payout would have needed to exceed $1,505 to warrant a W-2G. (Why the extra $5? Because the casino takes in the player's bets on progressive wagers). If the payout was more than $1,200, but less than $1,505, he wouldn’t have been issued a W-2G, and the manager would need his ID info to validate the jackpot in the progressive system.

If these weren’t the circumstances, then some internal controls specific to that casino probably required ID for certain payoffs. This is common at smaller casinos.

No part of this answer may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, without the written permission of the publisher.

Have a question that hasn't been answered? Email us with your suggestion.

Missed a Question of the Day?

Have a Question?

Tomorrow's Question

Has Clark County ever considered legalizing prostitution?

Comments

Jul-25-2020

Don't understand

I don't understand one sentence:  "Since the payout was over $1,200 and no paperwork was given, we can assume a $5 bet, because anything less would have warranted paperwork. Most of the new progressives are $5 minimums anyway."  Why would any bet less than $5 warrant paperwork, but a $5 bet would not?

Ray Jul-25-2020

Al I think I can explain

What the answerer was saying was that for a payoff between $1200 and $1505 to be less than 300-1, the actual bet had to be at least $5, because a payoff of a $4 bet that was over $1200 would be at least 300-1 and require a W-2G. He was explaining why the payoff may not have fit into the $600 AND 300-1 requirement for table games.

Jerry Patey Jul-25-2020

Payout on Royal

They are looking for any reason not to pay. Your facts though are correct

O2bnVegas Jul-25-2020

address on DL

We use a P.O. Box for our mailing address 99% of the time.  But in our state at least the DL must contain the actual street (home) address.  I guess so the cops can find us if needed...LOL.  Perhaps the player's first ID that he presented didn't contain his street address and it was required.

I present my DL when paid a jackpot, which has my street address.  Often the attendant will confirm with me my P.O. Box number since it is in the Players Club system.

Andrew Uyal Jul-25-2020

Ray is right

If it was less than a $5 bet, both thresholds would have been crossed, requiring paperwork.

Kevin Lewis Jul-25-2020

W2-G rules are not always followed correctly

Many moons ago, I was writing Keno in a Vegas casino when someone hit a ticket for $1200 on a $1 bet. While they were processing the tax paperwork and taking the guy who drew the balls out back to be shot, I remarked to the lucky patron that a W2-G shouldn't be filled out, because he had won only $1199. He agreed and refused to provide his ID to my boss. There was a big stink, eventually Gaming was called, and they paid him without generating a W2-G.

Then I was fired.

Kevin Rough Jul-25-2020

Can still issue when not required

A casino can still issue a W2G when not legally required to.  Many businesses issue tax forms when they aren't required.  Remember all income is taxable whether a form is issued or not.  My brokerage will issue all the applicable tax forms when only one is required legally.

Many years ago I got a W2G from the South Carolina Lottery for $3.  I was driving through South Carolina and bought a lottery ticket.  It was a $3 winner.  I wasn't making a special trip to South Carolina in the next 6 months so I mailed it in.  They mailed me the check with a w2G as that is how their system is set up.

Question of the Day - 25 July 2020

Comments