Can a Skilled Blackjack Player Count a 6-Deck Shoe?

In the movie Rain Man when Dustin Hoffman's character is card counting at blackjack and winning huge amounts, the official in the "eye in the sky" says he can't be counting because "There's no one who can count into a six deck shoe." How true is that? If it's true, why are people still backed off for counting in such games? And if it's possible to gain an edge by counting into a 6-deck shoe, have any casinos ever tried 7-deck shoes or 10-deck shoes?

During the blackjack scene at the end of Rain Man, after Raymond's uncanny card counting leads to a large win, a casino surveillance employee comments that it's impossible to count a 6-deck shoe. In other words, Raymond, played by Dustin Hoffman, has extraordinary mental abilities, suggesting he's accomplishing a feat that's considered impossible. That was movie hyperbole more than anything else.

The reality is, counting multi-deck shoes, including 6 decks, is done by competent counters the world over. Card counting doesn’t require memorization of the cards played, but rather an accurate tabulation of the plus and minus values of each card seen as prescribed by the counting system in use. Hence, any number of decks can be counted. What’s important is the level of penetration into the pack before it’s shuffled. If a casino is dealing out two decks, regardless of the number of decks in the pack, the game becomes more difficult to beat as the number of decks increases.

As for 7- and 10-deck shoes, we've never heard of a 7-deck shoe. In our research, we found that some casinos in Atlantic City experimented with 10 decks, likely in the 1980s when the casinos there were innovating against card counters, but that almost certainly led to practical issues, not the least of which would have been dealer fatigue if they were made to shuffle the large stacks and the amount of time it would've taken, minutes that the casino wasn't making money and the players were getting bored. Typically, shoe games are dealt with 4, 6, or 8 decks.

An aside. When Rain Man was in production, the Nevada Film Commission sent the script to an up-and-coming Anthony Curtis for input on this gambling scene. Anthony pointed out the fallacy of the 6-deck statement, while also suggesting additional verbiage. No one from the film’s producers, United Artists, ever contacted him, but while the line you reference survived, Anthony’s other suggestions were also incorporated.

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Jon Anderson Sep-24-2025

card counting pluses and minuses

have seen numerous youtube videos showing card counters getting whacked and losing just like the regular uncounting folks... if the deck is rich in big cards, doesn't that mean for the house as well as the player(s) ??? seems like the best "method" is to play basic strategy and bet more when winning and back down when losing...course having a loss limit and managing your bankroll wisely...hate to set a win limit but it's also as important to your bankroll having one, or at least pocketing some chips along the way to lockup the rare profit...streaks are as real as choppy outcomes...my take is there are much better and easier ways to make a living than card counting...  :)
p.s. loved rain man...dustin and tom were great together...

David Sabo Sep-24-2025

The answer

Jon, when the deck is richin tens and aces you get paid 3/2 assuming you are playing at the right table.When the hiuse wins you lose your bet.The extra premium for a blackjack is what the counters are after.

David Sabo Sep-24-2025

Correction

House not hiuse

Doug Miller Sep-24-2025

David Sabo is correct, but there’s more

The premium for a blackjack is one reason a deck high in face cards and aces is favorable to players, but another reason is that at most casinos the dealer must hit until the house has 17 or better, or a soft 18 or better.  The player, by contrast, can stand on a 16 or less.  Also, when a player splits or doubles down it is usually to his or her advantage if the deck is rich with face cards and aces because doubling down is usually done when the player has a two hand total of nine, ten or eleven.  Splitting is often done with eights and aces and when it is done with a pair of twos, threes or sixes it is done when the dealer has a hole card of 2-6, where the house is generally hurt by a face card but is often helped with another 2-6.  Anthony can explain this way better than I can, but that’s the short hand version.

John Hearn Sep-24-2025

Doug FTW

Doug, you captured a whole bunch of blackjack wisdom in that response. The game has gotten too rich for this low-roller most of the time. It's hard to find a $10 table these days; I never see $5 any more other than 6/5 games.

Kevin Lewis Sep-24-2025

To add to what Doug said

The player benefits from a high plus count because:

1. Doubles and splits become more valuable.
2. Blackjacks become more frequent.
3. The dealer being forced to hit 16 or lower favors the player, who, unlike the dealer, can modify his hit/stand tactics based on the count.
4. The player can adjust his bet according to the count; that can be fully or partially negated if the dealer can shuffle early.

The Rain Man scene was utterly asinine. I just burst out laughing when Rain Man "predicted" that the next three cards would be Queens.

VegasVic Sep-24-2025

Get off the Strip

Affordable games can be found, just not on the strip.  The Palms always has $5 3/2 blackjack.  So does Southpoint (I like both places).  There are other places.  There is no reason for anyone to ever stay on the strip.  Way overpriced, bad gambling.  I get it if you rarely go to Vegas or with someone new to Vegas, the strip is cool.  One time.  After that there are so many better options.  

As for counting, I dabbled in it back in the day. It was a challenge, nothing I ever counted on making real money at.  Plus I get too distracted.  I didn't drink when I counted but I couldn't stop looking away when a hot cocktail waitress walked by, which happened a lot back in the day. And then I'd lose the count. Every. Damn. Time.  Hotness of cocktail waitresses has gone down over the years.

VegasVic Sep-24-2025

Strip

One other reason to stay/play on the strip.  If you get great comps at Caesars and/or MGM.  I spread my play out. Palms, Southpoint, Red Rock and Green Valley Ranch.  And Jerry's Nugget when I'm visiting the Palomino.  I especially like South Point.  Large locals casino that is always hopping.  Even on weekday mornings/afternoons it's busy. But not too busy you can't get on a table.  Fun place.  I always rent a car so I can go to my favorite casinos (WHO DO NOT CHARGE FOR PARKING).  But Southpoint is just a few miles down the strip, a quick/cheap Uber/cab if you don't have a car.

Llew Sep-24-2025

Just FYI

Atlantic City uses 8 decks; at least they did when I took my dealer training in the early 90s.

Teeye Sep-24-2025

Cocktail  Waitresses

Vegas Vic, it sounds like you and I have a lot in common. I was into counting pretty heavily in the late 80s and thru the 90s until the games dried up. But the cocktail waitress ogling was the perfect cover to avoid detection. I'd get the count, snap my head around at every pretty waitress that walked by, step away for a moment to toss a bottle...and never lost track of a thing. It was the MOST important thing to avoid detection and pretty girls were a big part of my subterfuge. And yes,the waitress standards have dropped horrible since the good old days. And the South Point rocks!

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