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Question of the Day - 26 August 2019

Q:

How does a dice player get rated? Is it pass line and number placed bets and odds and time and is it the same as blackjack? Like if you have $10 on the pass line and odds and $10 across the board on the numbers, is it like betting $80 a hand at blackjack?

A:

[Editor's Note: For this answer, we turned to our guy behind the curtain, Andrew Uyal, a former dealer, floorman, pit supervisor, and card counter and now a high-level table-games executive at the Cromwell. By the way, his new book The Blackjack Insiders is selling like hotcakes, thanks to word of mouth in the gambler community and, perhaps, the 35% discount that's good through this Friday (the $14.96 discounted price includes free shipping). Take it, Mr. Uyal.] 

This is tricky, because there’re a lot of different rating systems out there. The more modern ones are very specific. We’ll start with those.

Line bets are usually grouped in with place bets in one main average bet. This is the main part of the game. Come bets are also included here (just the flat bet; more on that later.)

Proposition bets, like hard ways and horn bets -- really, anything in the center of the table -- are usually separated into a different category. Bonus bets like the fire or repeater bets are also included in this category.

Odds are in a different category in rating systems like this. This is because no comp points or reward credits are earned for odds. The reason for this is that there is no mathematical edge for the casino on the odds bet itself, because, you guessed it, it pays true odds. For example, The Cromwell offers 100x odds on their dice table. If all you bet is $10 on the pass line with $1,000 odds, you’re only earning points on the $10. The only reason (to my logic) for even tracking the odds bet is to see what kind of money players are willing to put in action. It helps understand the swings and volatility of a given player or table.

Now, some rating systems aren’t that specific at all and lump everything into one category. If you come across something like this, be sure to ask if they include odds. If they do, run to the bank, take full odds, and be ready to rack up some serious comps!

Systems like this, which include manual paper ratings, involve much more discretion on the part of the supervisor. The newer more accurate systems are so specific that it takes a lot of the guesswork out. When supervisor discretion is involved, it’s a good idea to ask questions to understand how you’re being rated, because, frankly, there’s no way for me to predict how any one supervisor, or casino for that matter, rates something with only one average bet number. Ask, and you’ll get plenty of different answers.

 

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Comments

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  • kinosh Aug-26-2019
    Huge variability
    I play craps the same way all the time: $10 pass line with 10x odds and nothing else.  My points per hour at the same casino varies from 35 pph to 696 pph.  The average is 280 pph.  I don't know why the rate varies so much.

  • Debra Grimes Aug-26-2019
    Rating at craps
    My husband and I can play at the same table, play the same strategy, and most of the time he earns more than I do.  Annoys the crap out of me.
    

  • Pamela Aug-26-2019
    Good One Debra!
    LOL! Sorry about the point discrepancy.

  • Kevin Lewis Aug-26-2019
    Subjectivity
    In my admittedly limited experience, there's no rhyme or reason to the rating/comps you get. I almost always play line bet + two come bets with full odds. Sometimes, I'll get pretty decent comps for that; other times, I won't get enough for a comped doughnut. I strongly suspect that other variables are involved, like if the floor supervisor got laid the previous night.*
    
    *This does NOT suggest a viable strategy to increase your comps. The cost of anti-nausea medication will cancel out the value of whatever extra comps you receive.

  • IdahoPat Aug-30-2019
    Kinosh ...
    Your variance possibly, although not certainly, is coming from someone who doesn't realize odds bets shouldn't be rated, and is including them in your average bet.