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Question of the Day - 06 July 2024

Q:

Could you please compare and contrast traditional craps (tables/payouts/house edge/rules) vs. “crapless”?

A:

We sure can. We get this question from time to time; we lasted answered it in 2022. And the excellent feedback that answer received is incorporated into this one. 

Far from being new, Crapless Craps has been around for nearly 100 years. Stewart Ethier, whom many QoD readers know as our go-to gambling mathematician, historian, and scholar, noted that though Bob Stupak trademarked Crapless Craps at Vegas World in 1981, the game was mentioned in Scarne on Dice (1945) and in Sham's Handbook on Percentages (1930), where the house edge was correctly calculated. Sham called it "everything a point."

Crapless is similar to the traditional game, with a few key differences that make it slightly worse for the player than regular craps.

Stewart also provides a quick summary of Crapless: The game turns 2, 3, and 12 from automatic losers to likely losers and it turns 11 from an automatic winner to a likely loser.

To elaborate, the 2, 3, 11, and 12 are points; in other words, there are no craps, so you can’t lose on the comeout roll. But you don’t win on the 11; the only way the comeout is paid off is on the 7. With the 11 out of the running, even with the risk of losing on a roll of 2, 3, or 12, the house edge on the Crapless Craps comeout is 5.38%, worse than roulette and much much worse than regular craps (1.4%).

Single odds reduce the edge to 2.94%; you have to take 5X odds to get it down to around 1%. Problem is, most versions allow only 2X odds, except on the 2 and 12 (these bets pay out at 6-to-1) and 3 and 11 (3-to-1); some versions offer slightly different options and, thus, have different house percentages.

For another, you’ve got the four extra points, but those aren’t exactly a reason to count your winnings in advance. For the 2 and 12, only one combination of the dice earn out, as opposed to six combinations for the 7. At regular craps, any action on the 2 or 12 is a sucker bet (with an edge of 7.1% to 14.3%, depending). The odds don’t get much better for the 3 or 11 (6%-10%); again, these numbers depend on the rules.

Okay, but why don’t players just bet on the don’t pass? Good question. The reason is, it’s not allowed. There’s no “wrong” betting in Crapless Craps.

The best bet at Crapless Craps is placing the 6 or 8 (1.52%).

The main attraction of Crapless Craps is that you can’t lose on the comeout, so you have action for at least two rolls. Also, there’s the novelty effect, with some different longshot options.

Also according to Stewart, a version of crapless craps, No-Crap Craps, avoids this game's drawbacks. Like Crapless, at No-Crap, you can't lose on the comeout roll, yet you don't have the disadvantages of the higher house edge and no don't betting. Instead of points 2, 3, 11, and 12, the points are 2-or-3 and 11-or-12.  If you roll a 2 on the comeout, you can make that point by rolling a 2 or 3 before a 7. The house edge is 1.4%. And there is a don't pass.

No-Crap Craps is a patented game that's approved by Nevada Gaming Control Board, but you rarely see it on casino floors. Crapless is much better known and, of course better for the casino; otherwise, with the same basic house edge as regular craps, there's really no reason to offer the variation. 

 

No part of this answer may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, without the written permission of the publisher.

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Comments

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  • King of the Bovines Jul-06-2024
    As a comparison
    The house edge on Crapless Craps is 5.38%
    
    The house edge on Double Zero roulette is 'only' 5.26%

  • AL Jul-06-2024
    The actual question
    The writer didn't ask you to compare Crapless Craps with regular craps.  He only asked you whether you COULD do so.  :-)

  • O2bnVegas Jul-06-2024
    AL??
    Read the question again, AL.  I read it as asking the QoD writers "Could you please [as in, will you please] compare and contrast"...not whether they (or anyone) are able to.
    
    Candy

  • Kevin Lewis Jul-06-2024
    Interesting math
    Al was making a funny 
    
    The math on this is kind of interesting, in that making the sure winner 11 into a probable loser more than negates the benefit of making the sure losers 2,3,and 12 into probable losers  You get a comeout 11 1/18th of the time, and if it's a point instead, you'll lose 2/3 of the time--twp ways to make an 11, six ways to make a seven. So you're losing your bet rather than winning it 2/54 of the time, or one out of every 27 decisions. That's a bit less than 4 percent of the time, a number which should be doubled, considering that you're losing your bet instead of winning. Minus eight percent--not nearly compensated for by turning the other comeout losers into probable losers.

  • Hoppy Jul-06-2024
    Please
    Could you, implies a question of ability. Adding Please, requests a function be performed.

  • Hoppy Jul-06-2024
    Re: Al
    Nice try nonetheless 

  • Dave Kamsler Jul-06-2024
    Kevin
    You'll lose with 11 as the point 3/4 of the time (6 out of 2+6 times).

  • sunny78 Jul-06-2024
    key word
    Lose, like any and all games in casinos. Why so much analysis on losing, regardless? Beats me. The only win I know in the casino is using a 2 fer 1 coupon for food in the LVA coupon book. And use enough of them in a year to pay for the book and one wins. :) 

  • John DeMonaco Jul-06-2024
    Casino Royale
    What is happening with the Casino Royale on the strip?

  • Kevin Lewis Jul-06-2024
    Dave
    Oopsy, you're right. I knew something was wrong with my numbers. So the real loss from the 11 alone is more like 10 percent. Double yuck.

  • Sterling Vandusen Jul-07-2024
    Utility costs
    What is the average monthly utility cost for the resort casinos especially during the summer months?

  • Raymond Jul-07-2024
    Crapless
    My favorite local (non-Nevada) casino usually has one regular and two crapless craps tables open in the evenings.  Knowing the odds, I prefer the regular (even though the come-out crap is an aggravation).  If that table is full, I'll play at the crapless table, and sometimes I win there.  My best roll ever was at one of the crapless tables.
    
    One thing I've noticed there and at other crapless tables is that the pit critters get really tight-you-know-what-ed if someone is having a good role at that table.  They'll invent all kinds of reasons to hole things up and get the roller to change his/her routine.  Fake disputes, changing personnel every few rolls, "new dice" for no reason, you name it.  The other night, I called the pit boss over and asked when auditions for Amateur Hour were, because the people he was using were not good actors.

  • Ken Orgera Jul-11-2024
    IRS check cashing at el cortez
    do they still have the Irs check cashing promotion