Can You Provide an Overview of Crapless Craps?

On my last trip to Las Vegas a couple months back, I accidentally bought in at a Crapless Craps table. The pit boss was gracious and assisted my move to a regular table. Since new games like triple-zero roulette and the like increase the casino's odds of winning, I always assumed that Crapless Craps is a bankroll killer. Still, I'm wondering how the payouts work on odds, etc. Please give us an overview of Crapless Craps.

Far from being new, Crapless Craps has been around for more than 35 years.

Crapless Craps is similar to traditional craps, with a few key differences that, as you suspect, make it a slightly worse game than regular dice.

For one, the 2, 3, 11, and 12 are points; in other words, there are no craps, so you can’t lose on the comeout roll. But you don’t win on the 11; the only way the comeout is paid off is on the 7. With the 11 out of the running, even with the risk of losing on a roll of 2, 3, or 12, the house edge on the Crapless Craps comeout is 5.38%, worse than roulette and much much worse that regular craps (1.4%). Single odds reduce the edge to 2.94%; you have take 5X odds to get it down to around 1%. Problem is, most versions allow only 2X odds, except on the 2 and 12 (6-to-1 at 7.14%) and 3 and 11 (3-to-1 at 6.25%); some versions offer slightly different options and, thus, have different house percentages.

For another, you’ve got the four extra points, but those aren’t reason to count your winnings in advance. For the 2 and 12, only one combination of the dice earn out, as opposed to six combinations for the 7. At regular craps, any action on the 2 or 12 is a sucker bet (with an edge of 7.1% to 14.3%, depending). The odds don’t get much better for the 3 or 11 (6%-10%); again, these numbers depend on the rules.

Okay, but why don’t players just bet on the don’t pass? Good question. The reason is, it’s not allowed. There’s no “wrong” betting in Crapless Craps.

The best bet at Crapless Craps is placing the 6 or 8 (1.52%).

The main attraction of Crapless Craps is that you can’t lose on the comeout, so you have action for at least two rolls. Also, there’s the novelty effect, with some different longshot options.

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VegasVic Sep-28-2022

Of course..

it's no surprise that crapless craps is starting to appear more frequently on the strip.  It's worse than regular craps.  Bob Stupak's Vegas World was the only larger casino that used to have it.  Little Caesars (Where Paris is now) also had it on their one table.  Now a bunch of strip casinos have some crapless craps tables. Soon it will be the norm like 6/5 blackjack.  Another reason, among many, not to stay or play on the strip.

rokgpsman Sep-28-2022

Carnival games

Just my opinion, but any variation you see on the tried-and-true basic casino games is anti-player, something the casino has an even larger advantage. They never come up with game enhancements to help the player win. Stick with video poker, blackjack, sports betting and normal craps,,,your playing time will last longer.

gaattc2001 Sep-28-2022

Professional gaming author David Sklansky, a key insider at Vegas World...

provided a complete analysis of crapless craps in one of his books. The Vegas World version offered 12x odds.
But VegasVic is right. Like six-to-five Blackjack, triple-zero Roulette, and eight-five Double Double Bonus, it's the wave of the future, as long as people continue to play these games.
That which you tolerate, you get more of....

Stewart Ethier Sep-28-2022

It's been around a long time

Yes, Bob Stupak trademarked it at Vegas World in 1981, but it's much older than that.  It was mentioned in Scarne on Dice (1945) and in Sham's Handbook on Percentages (1930), where the house edge was correctly calculated.  He called it "everything a point".

pivoss Sep-28-2022

While I agree that

most variations on a classic game are a sucker game, I was surprised to find out that, under reg rules and playing strategy specific for the game (which you can find with the Wizard of Odds), Free Bet Blackjack actually does not have odds that are too much worse than the standard game.

Dave_Miller_DJTB Sep-28-2022

Confusion about odds

Towards the end of paragraph 3, you said:
most versions allow only 2X odds, except on the 2 and 12 (6-to-1 at 7.14%) and 3 and 11 (3-to-1 at 6.25%);

The 6-to-1 and 3-to-1 you mention are the payouts. 2x refers to the max bet.

Stewart Ethier Sep-28-2022

There is a version of crapless craps that avoids its drawbacks

No-crap craps has the advantage of crapless craps (no losing on the comeout roll) without the disadvantages (higher house edge, no don't betting).  Instead of points 2, 3, 11, and 12, it has points 2-or-3 and 11-or-12.  So if you roll a 2 on the comeout, you can make that point by rolling 2 or 3 before you roll 7.  House edge is 1.4%.  And there is a don't pass.  As you might imagine, this game has not caught on.  For more information, see U.S. patent 7,134,660 at the USPTO website.  The game is now in the public domain and has been approved by the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

VegasVic Sep-28-2022

Stewart is correct

You're right Stewart, that's a much better game.  But I don't see many casinos choosing that over crapless craps.  They'll go with what's best for the casino.

One thing though, blackjack attracts tons of casual gamblers.  They don't bother to learn basic strategy (easy to learn) and don't have a clue about 3/2 vs. 6/5.  Craps players are more astute, you have to at least know some basics of the game.  Of course many craps players throw their money away in the middle of the table and at the end of the crapless craps will probably take hold.  And if it's just 2X odds there's no reason to play it.

Kevin Lewis Sep-28-2022

Played it once

At Vegas World, they allowed 5X odds. I wandered in there and played for three hours, every shooter was making 3s and 12s and 2s and 11s, paying 3X and 6X odds. That table got CREAMED. $+1700, and never again!

Roy Furukawa Sep-28-2022

Stupak?

Was it Bob Stupak that invented this game or just Vegas World that put the game on the map? I remember the ads for Vegas World back in the day where they would advertise giving you $1000 to come stay and play, of course with all the usual catches involved. Colorful characters like Stupak and Telly Savalas doing his Player's Club International commercials were classic 80's and 90's advertising. Who loves you baby!

Question of the Day - 28 September 2022

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