Why Don't Electronic Table Games Give Any Loyalty Points?

This weekend at Bellagio and Sahara, we sat at dealerless crap and roulette games that didn't award loyalty points. What's going on with that? We got up and found other options.

When we read this question, our immediate reaction was that the casinos haven't quite figured out what the electronic table games (ETC) are quite yet. Are they tables? If so, play on them should be rated. But since they're generally not supervised by floor personnel, who'd do it? Are they machines? If so, then they should award players club points. The question implies that the casinos think they're neither. Or at best fall somewhere in between.

We asked a couple of casino people and got no response.

So we went to our ace in the hole, Dennis Conrad, long-time casino executive and now a consultant, who recently wrote a commentary on the ETG for CDC Gaming Reports, "What about These Electronic Crap Games?"

Here's Dennis' take on it.

"I've played electronic craps at six casinos, one in northern California, one in northern Nevada, and four in downtown Las Vegas. I play only on the Interblock single-player ETG, as it allows me to fully control the pace of my own game.

"None of those games offered players club points. Sometimes they made that clear, sometimes not. In my mind, that's a big failing on the part of the casinos. It misses a major opportunity to find and reinvest in quality players.

"A big part of it is that these players fall through a seismic fault line between the slot and table-game departments, so neither has carved out a reasonable reinvestment strategy for ETG players.

"A second part of it, which possibly explains the first, is that so far, casinos have gotten away with not giving loyalty points on these games.

"Of course, they should. Look at it this way. ETG crap games, with a house edge on the best bets for the player of 1.4%, are similar to loose video poker machines. On those machines, casinos typically award 50% of slot machine points. That's reasonable, as video poker is less profitable for the casinos than reel slots. ETG craps plays much more slowly than video poker, so you can't expect to be rewarded even at the 50% video poker point-accrual rate.

However, ETG crap players should get something, especially given that there are likely two to four times the number of decisions per hour on the singl- player ETG game (my estimate) versus the traditional crap game. Thus, these ETG crap players deserve a lot more points (or comps or cashback or whatever reward currency table-game departments use) than traditional crap players, who might typically earn a reinvestment of 10%-20% of their theoretical loss.

If the ETG table-game business grows like I think it will, given that it allows players to play faster with less annoyance, casinos better fix this underinvestment in ETG players (including myself!). It's costing them revenue and marketing opportunities.

Other than that, I have no opinion on the issue."

Thank you, Dennis. He has a unique perspective as a casino exec and player, but he still sees it from approximately the same point of view of the question submitter, who "got up and found other options," proving Dennis' point about offering ETG players something.

But tomorrow, we'll take a look at this question from the casino's point view. Stay tuned.

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Kevin Lewis Jul-19-2023

Not awful enough

Keep in mind that players' clubs were initially invented to reward/bribe/entice/addict slot players, who historically, have been fighting about a 10% edge. So whatever goodies you got from playing with a card, that would have been somewhere between 10 and 40 percent of that 10% action you gave. That's what made video poker such a good game to play for so long--the casinos lumped it together with slots, even though the game's inflicted losses were a tenth or less of those suffered by slot players.

So fast forward now to an ETG crap game that holds only a little over 1%. Are the casinos going to reward play on that machine as if it was a slot? No bleeping way!

And NOW...the casinos think they're doing you such a favor by letting you play craps at ALL, they've jacked the table minimums to $15, or on the Strip, $100,000. So actually GIVE you something for playing that WONDERFUL game for a freakin' DOLLAR??? Are you out of your MINDS??? PEASANTS!!!! Be grateful we allow you in at all!

David Miller Jul-19-2023

No Interest

 I have NO interest in these games. Just another way to gouge the public.

Robert Dietz Jul-19-2023

We Need a New Retro

Sounds like an excuse to gouge players again. How hard would it be for a location to "recreate" downtown Las Vegas (sans Circa)? Some place with a decent population surrounding it? I think, for the cost of half a megaresort, you could launch a retro LV tourist attraction that was basically a 1960's resort. Florida would work. Maybe Texas.

CLIFFORD Jul-19-2023

ONE GOOD THING

PLAYING ROBOT TABLE GAMES THE ODDS ARE NO ONE WILL BE BLOWING SMOKE IN YOUR FACE AS THERE ARE FEW PLAYERS.  1848 ---THE BIRTH OF WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE AT SENECA FALLS, NY (good cause, nice town.)

O2bnVegas Jul-19-2023

'fraidy cats

I have friends who say they avoid live games out of intimidation, roulette, craps, even blackjack, and welcome the electronic versions for that reason. I tell them that dealers, at least at blackjack tables, are mostly happy to help newby players, but they don't believe me.

Candy

Lotel Jul-19-2023

Good point Robert.

A good QoD. why has no state or location try to recreate the huge success of a Las Vegas strip, or downtown. Where the casinos are close together and you are able to walk to different casinos. Most states now  have casinos located far from each other.  
From what I see ETGs are played by peoepl that don't want to gamble much money ,looking at their phone,  just killing time. ETGs are good  if you want to talk get some free drinks and not risk much money.

Thomas Chapman Jul-19-2023

Deadwood, SD

Deadwood has many casinos you can easily walk between. Not like the Strip obviously.

Ray Jul-19-2023

BJ points

When we go to Iowa, we play at the Wild Rose in Clinton. They have electronic BJ, 3-2, good doubling rules, etc. and I earn points just as if I was playing a slot machine. (It was a $3 min. the last time I played). My $5 bets earned me as many points as I would get for $5 worth of action at a slot machine.

shadow520 Jul-19-2023

Points

I've played on them a couple times at the Linq and Horseshoe and earned Caesar Rewards points.  Not nearly at a rate I thought I should given bet sizes, but did get some nonetheless.

rokgpsman Jul-19-2023

Electronic table games

The electronic versions of craps, blackjack and roulette offer some positives compared to the traditional table games. You aren't likely to have a smoking player next to you, the betting minimums can be lower, you can play at a slower pace, no mistakes by dealers short-paying you, no criticism from other players like you get at blackjack table. So there's a lot to like from a player point of view. Casinos would be wise to encourage playing at the electronic games since it will reduce the number of dealers they have to hire and there's virtually no cheating possible. Less dealers means less cost to the casino in payroll and less employee theft. We've seen some smaller places eliminate table games and just have slot & vp machines, no doubt this is to lower the casino's cost to operate by eliminating personnel. Players that like the social aspect of traditional games, talking to the dealers & other players, will probably avoid the electronic games until the benefits to them are seen.

JCCoryell Jul-19-2023

table less casinos a no go

I will not spend time in a 'slot parlor' that has eliminated its live table games.  I enjoy the social aspect of gaming and visiting a casino. Otherwise, I could stay home and gamble on an app.  When  a casino replaces a human being with a computer, whether it be a check-in kiosk, a pay parking machine or a ETG, the casino is disrespecting its customers.  They are saying they want our money but are not willing to invest resources in earning our business.  A casino is a service business and so I go there for personal service.  Screw the ones who won't invest in Human Resources.

That Don Guy Jul-19-2023

"Buying" points?

With electronic craps and electronic roulette, what stops somebody from simultaneously betting Pass and Don't Pass? Is the machine smart enough not to allow it, and if not, could it be set not to award points for those bets? In this case, if you bet, say, $100 each way, you earn whatever $200 worth of points is, with a 1/36 chance of losing $100. The same applies to betting on both red and black in roulette, but if it's a double-zero machine, there is a 1/19 chance of losing $200.

Question of the Day - 19 July 2023

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