Electronic Table Games and Points Part 2

Electronic table games and players club points: Part 2

Yesterday, we answered a question from a player who played at a couple of electronic (dealerless) crap and roulette tables, but got up and left when he realized that the machines weren't awarding players club points. We heard from a casino consultant and ex-dealer who also had the same experience, six times.

Today, we're posting the response from a casino executive we contacted, who initially declined to participate, but then came forward. He wishes to remain anonymous, but is familiar enough with this conundrum to comment on it at length. Here's what he had to say.

Electronic table games, ETGs, are a hot topic in the casino business. I'm surprised to hear that the player who submit the question didn't receive any rewards points at all. This could mean a glitch in the system, as all games are supposed to yield some type of points.

The types of points can be different depending on the jurisdiction. When playing at casinos that split their slot and table points, it could get a little confusing. The general guideline is if a dealer is on the game, whether it's an ETG or regular table, you get table points. If it's a dealerless game, you get slot points.

Are ETGs tables then? Or are they slots? According to some sources around the industry, wherever the revenue goes, that's how they're classified. Dealerless games like bubble craps or roulette where the ball is shot around the wheel by machinery are classified as slot machines. Those reward points should be accumulated the same as they are on other slots, usually based solely off coin-in amounts.

Dealer-assist games are a little more complicated, because the machines are operated by the table-game department, but if something goes wrong, slot attendants and technicians will come to care for the machine. Usually, with the dealer assist games, the revenue goes to the table-game department, and the slot guys are there for support, so to speak.

There are some new developments in the way points are accumulated on both dealerless and dealer-assisted games. Some reward-point sharks use multiple bets to cover and (almost) hedge their other wagers. On craps (betting the pass and don't pass) and roulette (betting red and black, maybe even the 0s too), it's possible to wager say $100 and risk only $5, or less even. I'm told that Interblock and some other machine manufacturers have installed updates on these machines to award points only for the amount of money at risk, rather than the total wagered.

This could put a dent in the way some players rack up reward credits.

As far as the original question, though, not receiving any points at all? That sounds to me like either a glitch in the system or a delay in the updating of earned points on those gaming sessions. And it's not just my suspicion. I asked around on this with colleagues in a few different jurisdictions. It was hard to get a for-sure answer on dealer-assist-game points, but it was unanimous that dealerless games earn points based off coin in, like slots.

My sources all say they've never heard of players not receiving points on dealerless ETGs and that if anything, it's the opposite; they give temporary point incentives to play these games, since they're new and the casinos are trying to generate excitement.

I'd be very surprised if execs were making a conscious decision to simply not reward credits for these tables.

Thank you, Mr. Casino Executive. Now we put the question to QoDers. Do you play ETGs? If so, do you earn points?

No part of this answer may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, without the written permission of the publisher.

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David Miller Jul-20-2023

Comps

 I will only believe what this man says when I see a meter installed and working on the games showing real time the value of comps being earned while one plays.

AL Jul-20-2023

What about e-roulette?

The discussion on this topic only covered craps, and unfortunately, it didn't make the distinction between the 1-player machines that are as narrow as a slot machine or video poker machine, versus those newer wide-area multiple-player contraptions. For a long time, there have been 1-player video roulette machines that only take up the same width as a slot or VP machine. Not only are these machines much faster than regular roulette, but they usually use a single-zero wheel, which is player-friendly. I much prefer playing this way over the regular way in which you have to contend with the bodies of other players who are placing chips on the layout. Casinos should install lots of these machines and publicize them so that more players play them. Both the players and casinos will "win".

Kevin Lewis Jul-20-2023

A bozo move

Let's say that you bet $100 on both the Pass and Don't Pass (clever you) in order to rack up slot points. Once every 36 come-out rolls, you'll get socked for $100; the rest of the time, you push. So you figure to lose $100 for every $7200 you play (36 comeout rolls), which, unsurprisingly, equates to the average of the house edge on Pass and Don't Pass (about 1.38%). Whaddya get for that? Most slot clubs award 0.1%, exclusive of any bonuses or multipliers. So that $7200 of action gets you $7.20 in points--for which you have just sacrificed $100.
The casinos would LUVVVVV for you to scamper down there and do this, and will happily give you a complimentary doughnut for those points that you earn.

James McCollum Jul-20-2023

Oklahoma Casinos

I have yet to see a dealerless craps machine give any points in Oklahoma Native American casinos.  All have a sticker stating that free play can't be used and no points will be awarded.

Brent Jul-20-2023

Not a Credible Answer

This response was kind of interesting to me until the "anonymous casino exec" started spouting obvious nonsense.

I have played many, many version of electronic craps. I have never found a machine that let you place bets like a "dewey-don't" (betting on both the Pass and Don't Pass lines) or simultaneous having place and lay bets on the same number. That just doesn't happen because casinos aren't that stupid.

Ray Jul-20-2023

like I said yesterday

I actually preferred the electronic BJ. It was not a solo player machine but a 3-player max. Usually I played when no one else was there. And my points built up nicely on my slot card. I never looked at the craps or roulette to even see if they had a place to insert your card, but I assumed it would be the same as the BJ machine.

Esloth Jul-20-2023

No points

Golden Nugget bubble craps has a sign on the player's card reader that states " no points awarded on this machine". That was in January but it was  posted  that way soon after the game was installed, years ago.

Scott Waller Jul-20-2023

Important Update

I submitted the original question. I appreciate the update from the anonymous casino executive, however, something is missing in this equation. 

In both the Bellagio and Sahara the ETGs in question both had permanent signs where the loyalty card slot is. The sign makes it clear that this game does not award points (to paraphrase). 

I regret that I didn't take aa picture of the marker plate.

CMU Jul-20-2023

Palace Station

Was just at Palace Station in Las Vegas. They have a new electronic craps game that has a real stickman and players throw the dice and a ton of electric baccarat games with a real dealer and none of them give points to your account.

rokgpsman Jul-20-2023

Electronic table games

This is a big deal for gaming equip companies. There are many different manufacturers/versions of electronic craps, roulette and blackjack machines. No doubt they can be configured by internal settings according to how the casino wants them setup, same as is done with vp and slot machines. Since many of the ETG machines have low betting limits it's not a surprise some places won't give the player very many or even no points. Also, this is new territory for a lot of casinos, some of the machines will have to be software interfaced with the particular casino's players club in order to award points. Remember how long it takes a casino that gets bought by another casino to have it's machines connected to the new owner's players club. If you insert your players card into the machine and it greets you with your name then it is connected to the house players club network and your play should get logged. But how much the casino awards you is entirely up to them. Ask the players club rep.

Virginia Jul-20-2023

South Point ETGs in March 2023

I don't know if this situation has changed in recent months, but in March 2023 I was at South Point and noticed two banks of machines that DON’T have a place to insert your slot club card. (The machines are near the VSIN studio.) The first is a collection of Casino Wizard machines that offer video versions of blackjack, roulette, baccarat, and craps. The second is a video version of roulette that can accommodate eight players seated around the wheel. I asked an employee (he looked like he might be a slot supervisor) why these machines don’t have a place to insert a player’s card. He replied rather cryptically, “People weren’t playing the games right, so we removed the card readers. I can’t elaborate more than that.”

Question of the Day - 20 July 2023

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