What Event Do You Consider the Beginning of the Vegas Gouge?

In your QoD dated June 23, you mention "BTG" (before the gouge). When or what event do you consider the beginning of the gouge?

Our first thought, of course, was resort fees.

Station Casinos is generally credited (if that's the correct term) with being among the first to launch the initial salvo in the early 2000s. In those days, they called it a "fuel surcharge," but guests also paid a mandatory fee for phone service, regardless of whether or not they'd placed any calls from their hotel rooms. Station was subsequently the defendant in a class-action lawsuit, along with the Hilton, Wyndham, and Starwood chains, and was forced to send compensatory coupons to 940,000 guests who'd stayed at its properties between April 1, 2001 and April 4, 2004, not because of the fees per se, but because they weren't clearly indicated to guests at time of booking or prior to checkout. Harrah's (now Caesars) Entertainment and other major casino companies at first rejected it, but then piled onto the bandwagon.

Our second consideration was a general tightening of schedules and rules of the games. For example, 6-5 blackjack dates from the late 1990s and if you like, you can read the history of the 6-5 payout on naturals in a QoD we ran last year.

But that led us even further back in time to the mass exodus from dealer standing on soft 17 to hitting that hand, which in one fell swoop added .2% to the casino EV of every hand dealt. This happened gradually, but inexorably, over the years prior to 6-5 blackjack.

To us, that started the trend that has resulted in everything from triple-zero roulette to ever-increasing resort fees, from paid parking to the concession and franchise fee, from 6/5 Jacks or Better to the optional employee health-insurance and coronovirus surcharges, from the rising table-game minimums since the shutdown to all the gouge events that, unfortunately, will no doubt be in our future.

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rokgpsman Jul-06-2020

Corporate greed

All of those negative changes to the Vegas experience that visitors get treated to came about at the same time new casinos were getting built all across America. You no longer had to come to Las Vegas to gamble, nearly everyone had a casino or two within reasonable driving distance. And many people did. Vegas lost its unique allure to a lot of folks, and the ever increasing gouging just made things worse. There are lots of people that were regular visitors to Las Vegas, some making at least one trip per year or several trips. Even overseas visitors made regular visits. But that changed for many as they got tired of all the extra fees and tightening of machines, higher costs to a trip with less chance of winning resulted in less incentive to visit Las Vegas. Plenty of folks now go to a casino near them and have a fun time.

Lesego Jul-06-2020

to be continued

I would add the slow reduction in the free mini-shows and other free things to do in here.  

As much as we love to say how much this has hurt Vegas, the numbers don't agree.  People like us don't like the changes, and it may reduce our visits, as a whole the population of visitors have shrugged their shoulders and partied on.  

6:5 BJ would have died if nobody sat down at those tables. Resort fees would have died if nobody stayed at the first casinos that adopted them. The free mini-shows would have continued if visitation and spending had dropped at the properties that eliminated them. I still miss the Paris fountain, but the lollipop store made a lot more money for a few years.

We honestly can't blame a business for looking out for their bottom line. (OK, yes we can, but that is their entire mandate whether we like it or not.) I used to love doing the coupon runs because I could spend a few days enjoying all the free things while I was doing it, but casinos lost money on it.

Bobby White Jul-06-2020

Change

If a few casinos went back to the" old way" they would make a nice profit & dominate business, just saying.

David Jul-06-2020

The gouge began ...

... the day that a publicly-traded company owned a casino

[email protected] Jul-06-2020

I love Vegas

I love Las Vegas but it's true I don't visit as much as I did I was a twice sometimes 3 times a year and this was before I was making the money I make now but now it's all about the fees resort parking cnsf entertainment crappy odds and super high table limits I visit my local riverboat a couple hours away once a month the gouging isn't going away as long as stock holders pull the strings

jay Jul-06-2020

BTG

Vegas is about excess and doing what you can't elsewhere. In most major citys if your not young and pretty your not getting into the club - it doesn't matter if your the first lined up at 7.00pm and the club opens at 11.00pm - your not pretty, your not on the list, your not going in. In Vegas the clubs are so massive and in competition for business you can be 50 overweight and buy your way in. There are enough professional lady/drinkers.. buy bottle service you are not going to drink alone. Fresh Sushi in the desert anyone ? - did I mention its flown in daily (actually insert any food). Want to walk down the street with a drink in your hand, no problem, want company for the night spend 10min in any casino bar.... want anything ?? all you need is cash and someone will help release you from that burden. People are there to party and Sin City is the place to do it for a price. 

With the social being dead, and every city/state has a casino. Vegas is currently a hard sell.

Ray Jul-06-2020

couple of thoughts

As David points out, once management had to answer to stockholders, every piece of the operation became a profit center, so rooms, food and entertainment do not get to be loss leaders for the casino. The same thing with worse odds on the games. It's the same thing as raising prices on products in the retail market, not just the gambling market. But I do not believe that any owner(s) want to take the chance on "going back to the old way" because they are skeptical that it would increase the total bottom line. If the "old way" works, why do people continue to stay on the strip instead of at locals places?

O2bnVegas Jul-06-2020

Loose lips sunk ships

1998 - 2000.  

Full pay VP machines/games were ubiquitous back then.

LVA forum pages were rife with gleeful posts about full pay VP games, specific casinos, specific locations.  Much bragging about finding a full payer and making a small fortune.  I wondered how long that gold mine would last.

Like open invitations to casino managers to stop this outflow of money by downgrading their VP as soon as possible, it worked.  Were casino managers reading LVA?  My guess is at least enough employees 
at some level to start the grapevines bursting.  It wasn't that long until the gold mines started drying up.  Like with any good sale, when word gets out the item sells out faster.  

Conversely, LVA forums exist partly to share information that may enrich the trips of fellow posters.  So putting the full pay VP word out was inevitable and not to be condemned.  It is just the way things are.  Maybe not the whole story, but part of it.

SoCalDude Jul-06-2020

Bye Bye Mafia

When the Mafia got kicked out of Vegas!
When the Mob ran Vegas it was never safer for guests than it has been since. Room rates were reasonable. Food prices were low. Table games had FAIR payouts.
Now: No. No. No!
Going to 6-5 BJ did not help nor did "Resort Fees" but getting rid of the Mob was the beginning of the end of "Old Vegas"

Debra Cottini Jul-06-2020

Fees

Obviously the casinos can do what they want but I never understood as far as resort fees,how is it legal for them to charge you for something you don’t use??? It’s like charging you for a dinner you never ordered!

rokgpsman Jul-06-2020

Resort Fees

@Debra
You're right, they say the resort fee is to give you many things, but even if you don't use them the resort fee is still charged. Things like the fitness center, in-room safe, their shuttle bus service, use of the pool, towels and lounge chairs at the pool, valet parking, the room telephone, notary service, shoe shine service, free 1-800 calls (they are already free), coffemaker in the room, poker and craps lessons, etc. Many of these you never use, others were free long before resort fees got invented. In the past nearly every Vegas resort had a pool with free access for guests, it was part of staying at the resort but now they say your resort fee gives you access to it. What a charade - even my local Motel 6 gives free pool access to guests. Basically they came up with a bunch of things to justify charging the resort fee, even though in years past those things were included with your room. They should just charge a higher amount for the room and stop the silliness.

Diamonddog2801 Jul-08-2020

Pete

My first memory of being asked to pay for something that was previously fee was used dice & cards - they were given away once, then they started turning up in gift shops with a price tag. It may only be a very small ticket item but I think it may well be when "The Gouge" first started.

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