Logout

Question of the Day - 15 January 2025

Q:

On Christmas Eve, my wife and I were channel surfing when we stumbled upon Guys and Dolls. What a movie! Neither of us had ever seen it before and we couldn't believe how authentic it seemed. Yes it's a musical with big dance numbers filmed on a sound stage with over-the-top costumes, but I swear, the dialogue could have been written by Anthony Curtis himself (we're big fans of the LVA YouTube videos). And man! Marlon Brando, Frank Sinatra, Jean Simmons, Stubby Kaye, the Goldwyn Girls ... fabulous cast. My question is, do you think Guys and Dolls is as credible as we did from a gambling perspective? 

A:

Well, it'd been a long time since we'd seen Guys and Dolls, so to answer this question, we watched it again with new eyes. And our answer is a qualified yes. It's mostly credible and certainly by Hollywood standards. 

For one, the Nathan Detroit character, played by Sinatra, is a small-time hustler known for running an underground crap game in New York City. This part of the plot revolves around Detroit's finding a venue for his game, which is proving to be tough, since NYPD Lieutenant Brannigan, played by Robert Keith, father of Brian Keith (of the 1960s TV show "Family Affair" and "The Brian Keith Show"), is turning up the heat. Ultimately, the game is held in a subway station, literally underground. 

Also, Nathan Detroit and the other leading man, Sky Masterson, played by Brando (in his only musical role, in which he does his own singing and dancing -- and man, he's got some moves), reflect the larger-than-life personalities often associated with gamblers of the time period, meant to be the '30s, but also applicable to the early '50s when the Broadway show debuted (the movie came out in 1955, the biggest year in early Las Vegas history). They're also the classic gamblers who'll bet on anything and Sky Masterson's part of plot involves a bet with Detroit that he can, essentially, get straight-laced uptight missionary Sarah Brown (played by Simmons) to fall in love with him. 

The supporting cast, characters with such names as Nicely Nicely, Harry the Horse, Benny Southstreet, Society Max, and Liverlips Louie, also embody a mix of charm, wit, and risk taking that we considered authentic.

But what impressed us the most was, as you mention, the dialogue. Guys and Dolls is based on at least two stories by the incomparable reporter and short-story writer Damon Runyon, whose tales of gamblers, hustlers, gangsters (and actors) turned into a trope of fiction known as "Runyonesque," while his distinctive vernacular, a combination of formal and slang with a lack of contractions (this idiosyncratic style is highly noticeable in Guys and Dolls), has become known as "Runyonese." So yes, the colloquy is as accurate and legitimate as if Anthony Curtis were discussing an advantage play with Max Rubin, Frank B, Richard Munchkin, and Bobby the Dancer. 

On the other hand, this portrayal of illegal gamblers as lovable rogues with hearts of gold is, to say the least, idealized. While some had these traits back in the illegal day, the real underground gambling world wasn't quite so benign -- run by the Mob mostly, with cheating dealers, usurious loan sharking, and debt-collecting thugs. 

In addition, veteran crap players, especially in the illegal games, tended to be highly attuned to the odds and used specific betting strategies, but Guys and Dolls treats the dice game as pure luck and theatrics.

On the other other hand, the choreography of the crap-game dance number is nothing if not evocative and spectacular. There's nothing like it that we've ever seen, worth the entire price of admission. The same can be said of the showgirl segments at the aptly named Hot Box burlesque nightclub, as well as the Latin dancing in the Havana sequence.    

Finally, Sky Masterson’s bet with Nathan Detroit about getting Sarah Brown to accompany him on an overnight trip to Havana is a bit, shall we say, unrealistic, the kind of wager that exists more in fiction than in the male-dominated gambling culture of the '30s and '50s. And in the end, as Adelaide the doll finally persuades Nathan Detroit, and Sarah Brown corrals Sky Masterston, into "holy" matrimony, the underlying theme of Guys and Dolls could be "how to marry the wrong person." We wouldn't bet on either of those couplings lasting out the year. 

To sum it all up, while Guys and Dolls does capture the spirit and flair of gambling culture better than most movies before and since, it emphasizes entertainment and romance over realism.

But hey, that's plenty good enough for us! We thoroughly enjoyed watching this Broadway classic and we appreciate the question for prompting us to do so. 

 

No part of this answer may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, without the written permission of the publisher.

Have a question that hasn't been answered? Email us with your suggestion.

Missed a Question of the Day?
OR
Have a Question?
Tomorrow's Question
Has Clark County ever considered legalizing prostitution?

Comments

Log In to rate or comment.
  • Kevin Lewis Jan-15-2025
    When was a musical ever an accurate portrayal of anything?
    To me, musicals--both plays and movies--have always seemed like the thinnest of plots being used as clotheslines on which to hang a series of songs--good, bad, or indifferent. The setting is likewise inconsequential and usually inauthentic--as if, for example, "Paint Your Wagon" was set in an actual Gold Rush town or "Camelot" had anything to do with King Arthur and the Round Table.
    
    I've always found it infuriating that if and when I DO get interested in the plot, three minutes has gone by, which means that some character is going to burst into song, usually without any warning or real context, like some old guy suddenly singing about his hemorrhoids.
    
    Thus, one of my favorite Monty Python scenes of all time is in The Holy Grail where the Prince in the Tower keeps trying to burst into song, and you hear the music welling up, but just in time, his father jumps in front of the camera, waving his arms and shouting "NO SINGING!" Repeatedly.

  • Tommy G Jan-15-2025
    Here's your Accurate Portrayal
    I believe the Sound Of Music was an accurate portrayal of the Von Trapps family. One of the best musicals ever!

  • O2bnVegas Jan-15-2025
    Been there
    When I first heard "I've got the horse right here, his name is Paul Revere..." and so on, oh yeah! 
    
    If you've ever studied a racing form, gone to the track, listened to the touts and the folks around you who 'have the horse right here', this number from Guys and Dolls speaks (or sings) to you, or at least it does to me every time. Whoever wrote that number has certainly been there.
    
    Love it.
    
    Candy

  • O2bnVegas Jan-15-2025
    @Tommy G
    Have to say, that dance scene with Julie Andrews (Maria) and Christopher Plummer (Baron von Trapp)...to me one of the sexiest (sans sex), most heart thumping scenes in all of movie-dom, to me at least.  The illusion of what's happening between them, rather than blatant face-sucking, whether that really happened or not, it is golden IMHO.
    
    Candy

  • DBCtexas2023 Jan-15-2025
    Steve Wynn
    With the premiere Casino companies like LVS and WYNN obviously in thight with Trump: any chance for a surprise Steve Wynn comeback other then he's getting up there in years? Perhaps maybe even his Daughter stepping in?

  • Raymond Jan-15-2025
    Five Times
    I've been a community theater actor for over 30 years, and I've been in Guys and Dolls five times, three more than any other show.  That tells you something about the show, its popularity, and how much I enjoy being in it.  Never got to be Nathan Detroit (and now I'm too old for the part), but I've been Benny Southstreet, one of his henchmen.  Good enough.  I even have my own costume for the show, a maroon suit with yellow stripes.  I'm not sure if I can fit in it now (it's been seven years since I was in the show), as "I'm the same size and it has shrunk".
    
    Kevin is right in his assessment of MOST musicals--thin plots with mostly bad songs.   Every time the plot gets going, they stop for a silly or overly dramatic song.  "G & D" is different in that the songs really are integral to the plot.  Well, most of them.
    
    One plot point--The venue for the big craps game isn't a subway station, it's a sewer.

  • queen of comps Jan-15-2025
    Here's your Accurate Portrayal
    Sound of Music is one of my all-time favorites and Brad and I enjoyed a tour of many of the movie locations many years ago on a European trip.  However, I have read many writings about the Trapp family and their  life wasn't nearly as romantic as portrayed.  Much literary license taken.

  • EDWARD BANKER Jan-15-2025
    Correct information 
    While reading the comments,  I am shocked that no one corrected you regarding your answer.  So, for the record, the craps game did not take place in the subway, it took place in the sewers of New York.