Which race books offer mobile betting and are horse bettors barred?

I noticed that very few books offer mobile horse racing and someone told me that it's because of the way the accounts have to be set up, completely apart from a sports account. Can you clarify?"

And

Is being backed-off from playing the ponies a thing? If it's a pari-mutuel system, then it makes no sense for them to toss you . . . right?

[Editor's Note: We don't often receive questions about horse racing, but we happened to field two within a short period of time. And whenever we do, we go straight to one of the world's experts on the subject, Barry Meadow. Barry not only has written two books on horse racing , but he's also a veteran advantage player whose book Blackjack Autumn we liked so much when Barry published it himself that when it was time, we brought out a new edition under our own imprint. In addition, Barry's a Vietnam veteran and a former standup comic who's great fun to be around. Here are his answers.]

Popular nationwide horse-racing advance-deposit wagering sites such as Xpressbet, TVG, NYRABets, and TwinSpires are banned in Nevada. While many Nevada sports books offer mobile wagering, it's trickier finding places that accept horse bets via mobile apps. In any event, all bets using mobile apps must be made from inside Nevada and you have to sign up in person at a particular race book. Bring a photo ID and your Social Security card, or fill out a W-9 tax form. Try South Point or the Wynn. Boyd Gaming and Station Casinos, among others, also offer horse racing via a mobile app at their family of race books.

In years past, race books booked their own action and backoffs and low limits for certain players were common. These days, everything is pari-mutuel, so there's no reason to bar players. One possible exception: Race books might not want to take action from players who want to make large wagers into minus pools.

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Dave_Miller_DJTB Aug-01-2021

Minus pool

I have a little interest in horseracing, but I’m curious - What’s a minus pool?

Kevin Rough Aug-01-2021

It exists

I bet the ponies on my phone, although I live in Pennsylvania.  The last time we went to the track, I was too lazy to get up and head to the windows so I got out my phone.  My friends tell me the obligatory "you have a problem."

A minus pool occurs when all of the money is bet on one horse.  In many jurisdictions there is a minimum payout for a winning bet.  In Pennsylvania, at least, if you place a winning bet and bet $2, the payout has to be at least $2.10.  This creates rare situations where the track is forced to payout more than it takes in.

That Don Guy Aug-01-2021

Minus pools and "bridge jumpers"

As Kevin said, a minus pool is when the track has to pay a minumum amount (I think it's $2.10 in California as well) on a $2 bet. 

Every now and then, somebody thinks there is a horse that is a guarantee to finish third or better, so they bet thousands of dollars on the horse to show, knowing they will profit by at least 5% of their bet; I have heard the term "bridge jumpers" used for these, presumably because that's what the bettor will do if the horse finishes fourth. Note that if the horse does finish fourth (or worse), there is so much money in the show pool that usually one or both of the first two place horses pay more to show than they do to place.

[email protected] Aug-01-2021

Minus pools

If a racebook is collecting for and then dispensing through the results of wagers placed on parimutual races, why would a heavy bettor into a minus pool be "backed off". The racebook, as I understand it,  is entitled to a % (8.5%?)of the bets it takes in.  But why would the racebook reject show bets? You explain that the track itself might lose $ on a particular race, but why would this matter to the racebook?

Jeffrey Small Aug-01-2021

Bridge Jumpers

I've heard the following story from several "old timers". When dog tracks were common in New England there was a gentleman who supposedly went from track to track looking for races with big favorites to take advantage of negative pools.  He bet $ 10,000 on the favorite and collected his 5% payoff and left...  Apparently this worked for a long time until one day the favorite stumbled out of the box and didn't finish in the money.  The payoffs looked like this--Win $ 9.80 Place 4.60 Show $ 128.00.  The gentleman was never heard from again...

Roy Furukawa Aug-01-2021

Minus pools are fun

I love to bet the show in a minus pool on any other horse. Most people bet a huge amount on the overbet favorite to show (meaning it has to come in 3rd place or better) thinking it’s an easy 5% on their money as long as the favorite hits the board. But if you like any other horse to bet show, there’s a huge show payout if the big favorite doesn’t make top three.

Barry Meadow Aug-01-2021

Barry Meadow

  In many cases, the particular racebook (or ADW) which took the bet that contributed to the minus pool is responsible for paying it--not the racetrack.  So if a track has a minus pool of $1000 on a particular race where the favorite paid $2.10 to show, and $700 of that was due to a $14,000 show bet taken at XYZ racebook, the book may be asked to ante up that $700.  State laws and individual contracts vary, and in some places the auxiliary bet takers can refuse to accept certain wagers even if they're available at the racetrack.

AL Aug-01-2021

Tiny correction

Just a tiny clarification to the statement "A minus pool occurs when all of the money is bet on one horse." It doesn't have to be "all" the money, and at any major or secondary track, it will never be all, because there will always be at least a little bit bet on every horse in the race to SHOW (to finish 3rd or better). A more exact statement would be to say "when an excessive percentage of the Show bets are on the favorite", such as 90%, or more. The exact percentage will depend on all the other details of the Show money bet on the race. Making a "bridge-jumper" bet is not wise, because many things can occur that can prevent the favorite from finishing in the top 3, especially getting injured during the race. A horse can bleed internally. It can take a bad step and snap its "ankle" (horses are very vulnerable at that place). It can be trapped on the rail by other horses and have no chance to move up into the top 3. It can become demoralized during the race. Or it can have a bad day.

AL Aug-01-2021

Never tried it

I'm a decades-long racehorse fan and bettor. I've only occasionally bet the horses while in Vegas (I did so mostly before I became a regular video poker player).  I had never heard the term "being backed off" before today, and I didn't know what it meant. I'm glad other posters said enough for me to piece it together. I never tried to make a "bridge-jumper" bet so I was never in a position to have my bet rejected because of a minus pool. During the last decade, I've done most of my betting through the Internet using one of the 4 major ADW (advance-deposit wagering) companies. I did not know that they "were illegal" in Nevada. I'm curious as to what would happen if we tried to place a bet via the Web while in our hotel room. [NOTE: Just so you all know, XpressBet is actually just one of many labels of its ADW company; the company also operates under DRF Bets, Del Mar Bets, 1/ST Bet (most recent) and maybe others. They only let you join under 1 label to prevent paying you 2+ bonuses.

Question of the Day - 01 August 2021

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