Where Did the Term "No Dice" Come From?

Speaking of gambling terms, I know that "no cigar" comes from early slot payouts, "no limit" is a type of poker game, and "no bet" is the same as "no action." I also know that "no dice" means nothing doing, but where did it come from?

And there's "no deposit no return," but that refers to glass (and condoms), not gambling.

"No dice" is a phrase that's believed to have originated in the United States in the early 20th century. Since gambling with dice was illegal in most states, crapshooters went to great lengths to hide or dispose of the bad-boy bones when the law showed up (there were reports of gamblers actually swallowing the dice to avoid arrest). Prosecutors and judges had to throw out illegal-gambling charges when there were "no dice" -- in other words, no shred of evidence.

According to phrases.org, the earliest known reference to the term was printed in the Port Arthur [Texas] Daily News in April 1921: "It's 'no dice' when the bones can't be found, according to a local court decision. Six white men were arrested Tuesday by Officer W. D. Moore and charged with gaming with dice." At the trial, the men were acquitted due to the lack of evidence. So "no dice" meant no conviction.

Somewhere along the line, like many gambling terms, "no dice" insinuated itself into the general lexicon to mean "an unacceptable alternative," or "an unfavorable result," or "a refusal to accept a proposition" -- in short, as you note in the question, "nothing doing."

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Larry Stone Mar-25-2024

spanish

in spanish, no dice means he doesn't say.

Kevin Lewis Mar-25-2024

The term in gambling

Is used on the craps table to mean "no result" (at all), as in, when the dice are thrown off the table or come to rest in an invalid area, such as the rail.
In other areas of gambling, it generally means failure, as in "I tried to bluff him, but no dice."
In cooking, it refers to not having the proper knife: "I wanted to chop up an onion, but no dice."

Kenneth Mytinger Mar-25-2024

phrases.org

What a great reference site!!  Have bookmarked it.

kwill1942 Mar-25-2024

slot chairs

While watching an old history of Las Vegas I noticed that slot players were all standing in front of their machines  as opposed to sitting on a chair or stool. When did this change come about and it would interesting to know  the who and why's of this change.

Kevin Lewis Mar-25-2024

a happy butt is a profitable butt

The shining goal of the slot industry has always been to maximize TOD, or Time On Device. In the 60s and 70s, many casino operators as well as slot manufacturers came to realize that seated players played longer (and of course, lost more). At first, they provided simple stools. But it became clear that an actual comfortable chair maximized TOD.
A new mechanism is in development where when the player sits down, clamps are activated around his ankles and an automatic belt straps him into the chair. Remember when cars did that? Same technology.

AL Mar-25-2024

another food reference

In addition to what Kevin said about onions, the phrase could be an instruction to leave a vegetable whole instead of cutting it up into chunks, such as tomatoes (which you can find diced in cans in any supermarket) and bell peppers (which always get diced for sweet and sour pork).

Bob Mar-25-2024

Or

A defective Yahtzee game.

Don Woodward Mar-27-2024

Mr GOTL

The term “no cigar” was originally a carny term, or at least wildely used in the carnival industry in the 1930’s.  On the hi-striker , if you hit the top bell on one of the three tries you won a cigar.  If you failed on all three they would bark “No cigar”!

Question of the Day - 25 March 2024

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