Question of the Day - 22 January 2022

The person asking the question was complaining that a VP machine simply returning your bet is announced on the screen as a "win," when it's really just a push. The "why" of a push rather than an even-money payout is irrelevant to the question.
The reality is that announcing a return of your bet aka a push as a "WIN" makes playing the machine more exciting than if it announced such an event as a "PUSH." You don't win diddly bupkus when you end up with a pair of Jacks. But the manufacturer/casino knows it's more profitable to lie to the customer about such things--even if only an idiot would believe such a lie (it's pretty obvious that all you did is push).
The physical difference is that on a live table game, the dealer doesn't pick up/take your bet before the dice are rolled/the cards are dealt. A VP or slot does exactly that. So the refunding of your bet can be treated with a little specious fanfare "WIN."
Casinos were built on lying and on creating illusions for the customer.

The question was "how good VP is when you find a game with a good paytable".
Answer should have been "You didn't find a good paytable!"
NOT VP=BJ
NOT VP=Craps
NOT VP=pie

Any paytable that pays one for one means you win one coin for one coin bet.
A true paytable should actually say PUSH instead of one, no loss, no win. or maybe zero instead of one.

It is false advertising and a BAD paytable.

Definition of win in the dictionary is obtaining success. In the casino breaking even is successful. We have our money to play again. When we’re dealt or draw jacks or better the screen displays jacks or better, not money increase. I feel much better breaking even than losing money. It only gets worse when you play games where you break even with two pair. There are no facts, just interpretation.

Why compare to Blackjack, which, as Bob points out, is mostly 1:1, but has the added/confusing options of splits and doubles?

A better comparison is Roulette, with it's range of multiple payables. OK, none are as big as VP pays for a Royal Flush, but...
Side note: I created a Roulette side bet with huge jackpot potential.
For more info: www.DaveMillerGaming.com

With VP, you gotta remember that way back in the day, you needed to put coins in before every spin. So getting some back, even the same amount as was put in, feels a lot more like a win than merely returning the credits to your meter.

VP *could* be changed to pay Kings or better and pay 2 for 1 to be an actual win, but that would change other strategy, resulting in a change in the edge/hold.

If I pay $5 to play a game at a carnival and win a $4 stuffed animal, it is called a win.

In a store the sign is $1 for 1 candy bar.  When I present $1 at the counter, they don't then give me back both my $1 and the candy bar, but keep the $1.

I understand what the question was all about, but the idea that one would not play a game because they call a push a win is a little miss-guided.  The answer was addressing the difference in the math term of "to" and "for".  When the term is 1 for 1 instead of 1 to 1, just like at a carnival game a push is considered a win. 

Mr. Lewis made the distinction very clear in when the bet is collected.  In VP, the money is gone before you get your cards, so in fact you do "win" your bet back because you don't have it anymore.

Why don’t you keep this simple and not make answer page length. In JOB you get your bet money back with a pair. Getting your bet back is a win ? Right? Lose money if you don’t get a pair. Guess I am just simple minded 

I consider a high pair a winner when playing JoB, because The Royal Occurs On average every 40,390 hands played. A high pair puts me one hand closer to to my goal at no cost to me. Just my opinion.

Besides getting your money back, you also get points, assuming you are playing with your player's card properly inserted. In most casinos the points are worth money or comp dollars or both.

...a VP machine is like a slot machine; the numbers indicate "what comes out of the machine" when you get that result. If it should say "Push" for Jacks or Better, should it say "1" (more accurately, "1-1") instead of 2 for Two Pair?

I'm puzzled that there’s some dissatisfaction with the original answer. It imparts good information about a “question” that can be interpreted in different ways and doesn't really lend itself to a specific answer, as is demonstrated by the variation in comments. Despite different interpretations, these responses make good and relevant points. Really, since a push is breakeven and you earn a fraction of a penny for the play from club points, I like Don the Dentist's take. My feeling is that calling a push a win and having the public generally accept that is one of the most brilliant marketing moves in the history of casino gambling.

When you make a bet and win you get your original bet back and the win. In VP you pay to play a game that will give you what the pay schedule says as a win. You don't place a bet in VP. It really isn't all that complicated.

You paid 5 dollars to play ONE hand you paid it its gone. Now you get the hand you paid for. If you lose you already paid, if you win you will get paid, very simple. 

I agree with @Donzack, it's how you interpret what a win really is to you. Getting jacks on JoB on $1 VP feels much more like a win compared to 5-cent VP to me. :D

If you don't like being told you won when there is no profit in the "spin", don't play any slot game. The advantage of VP is that you are told how much you will be paid before you put your money in AND the odds can be calculated because you also have the ability to know the probability of getting those hands. In non-VP slots you know the paytable without any knowledge of those probabilities...BUT you can play a 40 line penny game for 40 cents and hit on ONE line for a nickel and it is still called a win (yet you lost 35 cents on the spin). As one of the commenters said, once the money is put in the machine (or the credits are played) it is no longer yours. Any money that comes back to you IS, therefore, a win.

So those of you who think this doesn't count as a win,

when you buy a lottery scratch-off ticket for, say, $5, and you win a $5 prize, you don't consider that a win?  Because this is the same thing.