Logout

Question of the Day - 08 February 2022

Q:

Have automatic shuffle machines killed shuffle tracking for advantage players or is it possible to map them with any accuracy? 

A:

[Editor's Note: For this answer, we turned to one of the world's foremost experts on shuffle tracking, Arnold Snyder.]

This is a very interesting question, but one I can't answer with any confidence.

My general advice to APs is to avoid continuous shuffle machines (CSMs), the type of shufflers that provide no significant penetration into the deck(s), because small packs of cards are continuously recycled into the machine. These machines have no value to card counters or shuffle trackers.

There's also a type of auto-shuffler that shuffles multiple decks, but doesn't have the cards replaced for reshuffling until multiple decks have been dealt out, with the used cards being placed into a discard tray until they're replaced into the shuffle machine. These have the same value to card counters as a hand-shuffled game with a similar percentage of the cards dealt out between shuffles.

But can these types of machine shuffles be tracked?

I’ve heard stories of players who've obtained specific machines for analysis purposes and concluded that they do not, in fact, “randomize” the cards. Instead, they claimed that the post-shuffled decks retain predictable patterns of cards that could be exploited by observant players. One European player tells me that he's analyzed a number of different shuffle machines and that he can profitably track the shuffle on one specific model.

But here’s the thing. Assuming this to be true, don’t expect any blackjack pro ever to write a book describing how to exploit such an opportunity, because it would very quickly kill the opportunity. Such an exposé would have to include the precise make and model of machine that was found to be exploitable.

So unless you can obtain a shuffling machine yourself (not an easy or inexpensive thing to do) and figure out how to analyze the machine’s weakness and how to exploit it, you're pretty much out of luck. You’ll never accomplish such a task without personal access to the machines.

Incidentally, if you have legal access tone, but you don't know how to determine if its shuffle is exploitable, drop me line care of LVA. If you can afford the machine, you can easily afford my consulting fee.

 

No part of this answer may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, without the written permission of the publisher.

Have a question that hasn't been answered? Email us with your suggestion.

Missed a Question of the Day?
OR
Have a Question?
Tomorrow's Question
Has Clark County ever considered legalizing prostitution?

Comments

Log In to rate or comment.
  • David Miller Feb-08-2022
    Think about it
     Sad, the extremes one must attempt in order to get a fair game in a casino. Be smart, if you do discover ways to win more from the casinos - DO NOT tell anyone. The casinos read everything written about gambling on gambling sites and they will adjust/change the rules of a game if anyone writes about finding a way to win more.

  • jay Feb-08-2022
    Expensive
    I collect used casino equipment for my themed basement- slots, video poker, linked progressives, blackjack table, roulette wheel with last number display, casino table felts, craps, lit signage, table limit signs, toke boxes etc.  
    
    I have wanted to get one of the shuffle master shufflers, the one that have two stacks of cards - they are over 6k used and the maint kit with belts and such are another 2k. They are also extremely heavy so shipping is another consideration. 

  • [email protected] Feb-08-2022
    David
    All the games in regulated casinos are fair games.  They just may have house edges that are too large to make them playable by serious players.  Unfair games would be those with non-random results, loaded dice, slight-of-hand dealers, etc., in other words, cheaters.  Just because the edge is high doesn’t mean the game is not fair.

  • Stewart Ethier Feb-08-2022
    Diaconis article
    There is a nice article that provides a mathematical analysis of an automatic shuffler, available here:  https://arxiv.org/abs/1107.2961.

  • Pat Higgins Feb-09-2022
    Big Tex
    Now I know why I hardly ever play blackjack because the shuffle machines remove any significant chance of getting a small advantage over the house.  Also those games (2 through 8 decks)  w/o a shuffle machine have such poor penetration maki the games worthless.  I just don’t bother.  Besides there is probably a good craps game near by where I can use my (GTC) knowledge to beat the casino.