Question of the Day - 07 June 2023

I remember in the late 90s or early 2000s, the Strat had one bank of quarter video poker machines that listed >100% payback for perfect play and no player points.

Wherever and whatever you play, know what you are looking for with each pull/spin.  Tier points?  Slot points? Bonus points?  Watch to see if any are accruing.  If none, or too few too slowly, then you'll know.

Candy

If I'm not mistaken they quit giving points for blackjack play 2-3 years ago. Tried to get an answer from several pit bosses and a host, but got a lot of double talk.

There is an old adage that says it costs a $1 to keep a customer and $5 to get a new one. I think Vegas has lost site of that.

They used to give away rooms so that people would come and lose their shirts in the casino, free drinks to keep you loose and making bad decisions. Comps were at the discretion of the pit boss's and hosts - get too drunk and they sent your for a meal. Points cards came which was less relationship based but did somewhat keep people loyal to a brand. Now they are  little more than a data mine with no benefit to the player. 

I was in Vegas last month for a conference - stayed at the Venetian and got goated into playing with a bunch of colleagues at a $25/hand 6/5 auto shuffler table. Surprisingly I came away $175 up after an hour but one of our crew got skunked out of $500 in about 15min but hung around to watch - the %^&*( waitress said she wasn't allowed to give him his cocktail that he ordered when playing because he was now standing. What a sad state... 

The casinos are targeting people who want to gamble but not think about it.  They don't want people who will only play decent games.  They want people who will play whatever crummy game they have to offer.

...the "loose-Tooth" and the "loose-Juice" machines. 🤭😬

When Stations still had a bank or two of fullpay machines at each of their casinos, they placed those banks by entrances where you would get repeated blasts of hot or cold air, depending on the season. So yeah, you could play the good VP--in the least comfortable spot in the building. I'm surprised they didn't put them in the bathroom.
Then, they cut down the points you earned on those machines by a factor of TWELVE. You put $1000 through one of those machines, you earned EIGHT CENTS in comps. And now, of course, those machines are gone altogether.

Blame Advantage players.  AP's have made a living off casinos and  do not contribute to society.  AP's cost the average Joe money with fewer comps,  higher hotel prices ,etc  and make it about impossible for average Joe gambler  to have a fair chance to win in Las Vegas, Stories all over about AP groups find a good pay machine or game  and will send a team there to take over the machine or game  24/7 until it is gone or changed. Amazing people today expect casinos to survive and have games that pay off more that they take in. 

NEVER play slot machines for the comps? Or better yet......NEVER play slot machines PERIOD? It simply amazes me why some people like to "gamble" but are too LAZY to learn any games where they are TRULY gambling (i.e. blackjack, crap, horse racing and even sports betting) where you actually have some control of the decisions and thus the outcome...Slots is NOT gambling...It's lazily and mindlessly flushing away money...

"AP's have made a living off casinos and  do not contribute to society." Wow...So you are somehow "blaming" SMART gamblers beating the casinos "fair and square" for the losers not getting enough freebies/comps? Unbelievable...

So if you do decide to play these high-payout games with no points, it seems there is no upside to using a card, and only downside, right?  As in, Stations will know you're only there for the high payout games and nothing else, and may start lessening/eliminating your offers?

So if you do play these games, you should under no circumstances be using your player's card, right?

I'll skip the calculations, but the loss rate is 1.5% from the six-to-five feature alone--PLUS the underlying base percentage of the equivalent 3-2 game, approximately 0.5%: a total of 2.0%, or fifty cents per hand in this case. And then they wouldn't deliver the drink that your friend ordered while playing because he wasn't playing any more? That's just plain tacky. Did they throw it away, or what? Sheldon Adelson wasn't exactly my favorite casino mogul, but I like to think that even he wouldn't have stooped that low.
Actually, Vegas "lost it" (or lost me, at least) when they offered six-to-five in the first place.

But back to the original topic: It's well known that a certain Las Vegas Resort awards points for VP on a sliding scale, assuming "perfect play" at each game: $50 coin-in divided by the house % advantage per tier credit. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that they would cut it off entirely for the higher-return games.

That which you tolerate, you get more of....

'Amazing people today expect casinos to survive and have games that pay off more that they take in.'

Reality. And I agree with Lotel that advantage players hurt things for everyone. You get just a few crackerjack players on VP games that over the long run make take more than lose, especially sizable amounts, what do you expect casinos to do? This is not about 'economic inequity' leftist fantasy nonsense, it's a business, not hand out 'free' $ fantasy time.

But you have to understand there's a mentality out there, you'll see it in lewis types and others whining in that direction. They believe people are 'owed' something. They 'deserve' it. It's the victim nonsense mentality rolled into it also. They forget this is a business #1, 2, and 3, always has been, always will be. 

As for the 'not contributing to society' part, casinos do generate jobs, pay taxes, and beyond as a business, so there's that aspect. They just cater to people where in the long run lose for their profits.

Casinos don't have to pay out more than they take in.  But there's a vast gulf of a difference between that and where they are now.

Casinos were surviving just fine a few decades ago with 99+% machines still giving player's club points.  Hell, to be honest, they could probably plaster 100+% machines all over the place and still turn a profit, as I've been playing VP for years and I think I've seen 1 or 2 people TOTAL in that time who actually play perfectly.

Triple zero roulette, 6:5 blackjack, reduced slot percentages, bad paytables, etc etc.  Many of these are relatively new phenomena, and casinos were turning healthy profits for years before they were introduced.

Up until around Covid Cromwell had a bank of 100% VP right by the front entrance. Also no points. 

Mark, based on analyzing stocks and such, looking at a 13yr chart for MGM Resorts, it's really boom and bust cycles for the casino industry. Some very bad years, some good, some years just treading to small amount of profit or loss. Economy has lots to do with it, the lockdown COVID nonsense created the current boom, but it's not like casinos make money hand over fist year after year as many think.

But yes for sure on your point of casinos tightening on comps, payouts recently, no doubt about it, that's reality. I'm thinking that kicked in overdrive with the shutdowns, very small crowds for a while, they took a bath in revenue-profits. Catch-up time sort of thing. And people are still showing up in droves so from their standpoint, why wouldn't they? If I could sell a car for $10k instead of $8k, I know what I'd want to make on it.

How I look at it is it is what it is. Play or don't play. Me? It's a little entertainment with small $. Now or years ago, the odds are always against me.

 Al long as the minions who flock to Vegas are willing to pay whatever Vegas charges the casinos have zero incentive to change what they are doing. Vegas was built on cheap food, rooms, fair playing rules, 100% video poker and generous comps. People throughout the world have been brainwashed to believe that today's Vegas is the old Vegas.They keep coming, keep paying and then they come back for more. If you owned a business that constantly raised prices and more and more people kept buying your product, would you change your modus operandi_ I don't think so and Vegas apparently agrees. Face it, today's Vegas is structured for the young and dumb. Anyone knowing this and still complaining does not accept the fact that Vegas does not care what you think. It is still possible to visit Vegas and not get ripped off but one must seek out opportunities and this requires effort.Here is a hard and fast fact - Vegas wants nothing to do with long time Vegas visitors who remember the good old days 

Jxs--I remember that bank of machines.  it was about the only reason I'd go inside the Cromwell then (I'm usually a craps player, and the generous odds Cromwell offers on craps is more than offset by the atittude of the dealers).  

I also remember a good bank at NYNY near the cab area a few years before that, no points but good games.

Let people gamble how they want with their money.  To quote some hockey player years ago...."is only game--why you heff to be mad?"...especially when it's not your money.  Besides, if everyone out there learned the 'smart' gambling games the prices would be even higher on those than they already are.  Be happy lots of people are willing to (presumably) happily pour money into machines. The casinos make enough off them they don't care to adjust the prices on 'smart' gambling games that they might lose (big emphasis on 'might', since the house has an edge in every game).  If everyone did what you suggest there'd only be a handful of games in every casino and they'd all be huge buy-ins.