What is an advantage play? While I have never heard a precise definition, generally it is when you use your intelligence, knowledge, or guile to gain an advantage over some other person or group. The term is most often used in discussions about beating a casino.
Counting cards at blackjack is a common advantage play. Using video poker knowledge to choose which machines to play and to play every hand correctly, combined with an understanding of slot clubs and promotions, is the type of advantage play in which I regularly indulge. Betting sports, where you have computed that the line should be -3 and the books have them at -7, is still another. As is seeking dealers who expose the bottom card or make incorrect payouts. Here we are extracting extra money from a casino – which is the entire point of intelligent gambling.
Outside the casino, clipping coupons could be considered an advantage play – especially if sometimes you get the stuff for free. Doing all your shopping during sales and never paying full retail is another. Standing in the “10 items or less line when you actually have 11 items is another. The list is endless.
In normal use of the term, advantage play includes legal actions and excludes illegal actions. With this definition, using a computer strapped to your thigh to help you figure out how to play blackjack accurately in Nevada is not an advantage play. It is an illegal one.
The problem with this definition is that often what is legal or illegal is a gray area and must be determined by the courts — where it helps to hire good lawyers. While I strongly believe the edge sorting that Phil Ivey and Kelly Sun did at Borgata, Crockfords, and other casinos should be a 100% legal advantage play, the courts have disagreed. Sometimes you just don’t know what is legal or what is not, although there is not doubt about the most egregious cases such as using a gun to rob a bank.
Let me get to what bugs me so much.
My wife, Bonnie, fell hard recently and hit on her buttocks/hip area. Nothing was broken, fortunately, but she’s 75 years old and the fall debilitated her. Although she may be walking without assistance when you next see her, for several weeks she used a walker, or a cane, or sometimes even a wheel chair. She asked her orthopedist to sign the form for a temporary “Disability Placard” to enable her to park close to places she needed to go. The doctor agreed and we went into the DMV to get the placard.
While we were in the DMV, where we had no problem, on the next chair over was a woman writhing in pain. She could barely even sit down, and she was constantly moaning. Clearly, she was in agony. It was uncomfortable to see. We didn’t know her and couldn’t really help her, but someone hurting that much made our hearts go out to her.
We finished before she did, and I left Bonnie by the front door of the DMV while I went to retrieve our car and pick her up. When I got there to pick up Bonnie and was helping her in the front seat, we saw the woman who was in so much pain exit the DMV, immediately straighten up, and begin to jog towards her car!
Although there may be another side to this story, to us it looked like she got the disability placards merely so she can park up close to wherever she’s going. This was clearly an advantage play.
You might consider this smart until you consider that there are only a limited number of handicapped parking spots at many places, and the spot she’ll be taking should be left available to someone who really needs it.
When she signed up, Bonnie received two placards. One she placed in her own car, of course, and the other she gave to me. When she’s with me, I park in a handicapped space. When she’s not with me, I don’t.
On one occasion, the temptation to use the placard when she wasn’t with me was strong. I resisted. But I might someday not resist.
In order to help me “practice what I preach,” I offer you the following promise: If you ever see me use a handicapped space inappropriately (i.e. when Bonnie’s not around or when I don’t qualify for one myself, which I don’t currently but I’m 72 years old and who knows what the future holds?), mention it and I will give you $100. If there are three of you in the group, I will give all three of you $100 each.
Parting with a few Benjamins won’t break me, but I don’t throw money around. It would irritate me (at my own short-coming) should I ever have to pay money for something I shouldn’t be doing anyway. I’m not really famous, but I’ve taught enough classes that tens of thousands of people in Las Vegas recognize me. Knowing that I might have to fork over some money if I “cheat” will assist me in walking the walk.
Forgive the pun please, but we all need crutches, and this is one that will help me.
that was an advantage play?
I know the meaning of AP is a little nebulous, but describing the lady who faked her “handicap” as an advantage player is ridiculous to my thinking. Not only is it bad karma to “fake it” at her Drs. office, it’s also taking a spot away from someone who needs it….that’s bad karma and illegal by parking in a spot when you don’t have a handicap.
Bob, you’d be lucky to get away with a $100 a piece “fine”. Just because you have a placard, doesn’t mean you’re within the law (both the spirit and the letter of) to use it.
BTW…always enjoy reading your column!
ND
ND,
That is definitely an advantage play. Not a very scrupulous play but definitely and advantage one.
To me, an advantage play is one where you use your abilities to create an advantage where there isn’t usually one. Normally, blackjack has a house edge. By counting cards, you can turn a negative game into a positive one, thereby gaining an advantage and having an advantage play.
Playing Super Double at South Point with a player’s card is a negative game. Playing with a player’s card makes it a break even game and playing on double points days makes it a positive game, thereby creating an advantage play.
Lying to someone playing ultimate X and telling them it is okay to leave all those multipliers is an advantage play but an unscrupulous one.
Advantage play means you use your smarts to create an edge where there usually is not an edge. It’s doesn’t mean the play is not morally offensive.
bob ,you just gave all of us a potential advantage play !! lol .
Lying to get something is theft by diversion. Ivey/Sun did the same thing and is why the courts rules against them.
Lc Larry,
Maybe you’re a casino employee or maybe you don’t totally understand what those two did but courts don’t always make rational and correct decisions.
Bob, if you have a bunch of $100 bills on your person, I’m tempted to use another advantage play on you…it’s a (G)lock! Advertising you have lots of cash, when everyone knows who you look like is not a good idea.
Faking to get a handicap pass or using one that isn’t yours is just simply fraud.
Bob…
Just to clarify, in your response to ND, did you mean “Playing Super Double at South Point WITHOUT a player’s card is a negative game.”?
…Dave
That wasn’t my response. That response was from Jimmyjazz — who is knowledgeable about these things.
SDB pays 99.69%. The slot club pays 0.30%. since that only adds up to 99.99%, the house has the edge and it is, hence, a “negative game.”
Personally I wouldn’t consider it such. There are mailers and promotions and the game is positive, albeit slightly.
This is Jimmy Jazz. That was my error. I should have said that playing Super Double at South Point and using your slot club card is a break even play ( I’ll consider 99.99% break even) and hence not an advantage play. If you play on double points days, it is an advantage play.
There is a point to made, though. Playing a break even game is NOT an advantage play. Even though the vast majority of people play at a lesser return than this, it still is not an advantage play. All you are doing is increasing variance with no increase in EV.
Obtaining a handicap pass under false pretenses is illegal, plain and simple. Using a handicap pass when one isn’t handicapped is also illegal and fines are stiff. As for so-called “advantage play”, that’s just a term invented by the casinos to try to shame gamblers who win when of course the casinos themselves have the overwhelming advantage when it comes to gambling. Winners are rare and need to be positively marketed by the casinos, just like in the lottery. As it is now, I think most gamblers understand that the casinos will shun them when they win and try to do whatever they can to avoid paying them whenever they win. It’s even a running joke in industry movies like “Hangover”, in particular watch the “hangover blackjack scene” on youtube. Splitting fives, lol. That doesn’t make the casino industry as a whole look very good and it’s a blight on cities like Las Vegas.
Another point, under capitalism, it is the responsibility of the consumer to try to get the best possible price, even if the price is below market or less than the replacement cost, etc. Under communism, the same thing applies, but one pretends it doesn’t.
At Disney World, I saw a young couple, one pushing the other who was in a wheel chair. Later that day, I saw the same couple, but they switched places in the chair. An advantage play to get into the handicapped lines.
My wife is disabled, and I’ve done Disney World many times – and Disney knows all about this “advantage play”. Lines at 95% of the rides there are set up so that there is no advantage to someone in a wheelchair, and it is possible you’ll end up waiting LONGER. That couple might have using their “advantage” to cut down on leg strain, but they weren’t getting any special perks otherwise.
But thanks for beating on this, Bob! It is a common “advantage play” and it is a constant irritation to those who really do need the spaces. Like you, I only use the pass when I’m transporting my wife.
Last year on a trip to another state, a friend there lent me his vehicle. It had a handicapped plate, to which my friend was fully entitled. I could have parked in handicapped spaces, but didn’t. I might have been tempted a time or two, but that’s the sort of temptation I can still resist. I retired from politics years ago.
I’ll be eligible for my own handicapped plate soon enough.
I have been allowed a disabled parking permit a few times,for different reasons.
My doctor has to sign the form,in this State.
I have requested a disabled parking pass in an attended parking garage and got one.
After explaining my injury,he gave it to me.
I couldn’t walk more than 50 feet without pain.
You may get a hefty ticket if you park in a handicapped space without a permit!
Also,a disabled person may flatten your tire!
DON’T DO IT.
Mr Jazz
Just so I’m clear what you’re saying….. is anything you can get away with, lie to get, or use “unscrupulous” means to acquire (legal or not, moral or not) an advantage play if it helps you in any way?
ND
ND,
As I said, a good definition of advantage play is using your skills and abilities to create an advantage out of one where there usually isn’t an advantage. I like this definition because there is no distinction on morals. Did you mom ever say you were under 12 when you weren’t so you could ride the bus for free? An advantage play but not a legal one. How about redeeming more than one coupon when the rules are ‘one per customer’? Again, not necessarily legal but an advantage play.
There’s all kinds of angle shooting at the poker tables. Betting out of turn, reaching for chips then checking, etc. All of those try to get an advantage. And just because it is an advantage play doesn’t mean it is an ethical play. I guess a distinction should be made between legal and illegal. Otherwise, pulling a gun on someone and taking their money is an advantage play.
But there are different degrees of breaking the law. Driving 51 in a 50 mph zone is breaking the law. Spitting on the sidewalk is breaking the law. So, even though using 2 coupons that say ‘one per customer’ is breaking the contract on the coupon, I’m not sure that is an immoral act. Some casinos allow it openly.
So, I hope I cleared up my stance. I just wanted to get some agreement on what constitutes an advantage play.
In my city one can call 911 to report a car without handicap license or legal placard parked in a handicap parking space. Take a photo of license plate if possible and upload to the police web site. They won’t come running with lights and sirens, though it is possible they may be close and not otherwise occupied and WILL ticket the car, with a fairly hefty fine. Several reports on the same license plate for illegally parking in a marked handicap place can result in a summons. I was surprised to read how many tickets have been issued for illegal use of a handicap parking space in my city. So, there is something to do about that if one is willing to take the time and effort. But, probably very difficult to prove a handicap faker, and what would be done? Nothing. I just hope that what goes around comes around for such a person who would fake a handicap, when most truly handicap people would give anything to not be in that condition.
First >>> I am sorry to hear of Bonnie’s mishap. I have a Handicap placard due to having 2 health issues that make it difficult for me to walk distances without pain & the ability to breathe. Having the placard is not an advantage play for me. It reminds me that I have a disadvantage. When I am parking and see an open handicap spot and an open none handicap space close by, I choose the none handicap space. I respect those that might be having more difficulties than myself.
I’ve come to the conclusion that “advantage player” is just another derogatory slogan. Someone pulling into a prime upfront disabled parking spot is labeled an “advantage player” when in reality they are unlucky and have experienced a disability and are entitled to special access. Someone else gets a special parking spot because they have an expensive all-electric vehicle. Advantage player. Bikers get a special parking spot because the billionaire owner is also a biker. Advantage player. Amazon almost convinces New York to pay them to build a factory (billionaire welfare) while the last thing New York needs is more jobs, it needs more housing for the people already working there. Advantage player. Someone gets lucky in a casino and hits a slot jackpot or drawing while hardly putting in any coin-in, in fact just cycling the money from selling government food stamps. Advantage player for sure.
Go ahead and cheat Bob. Take that empty handicapped parking space right up by the front when your wife isn’t with you. Who is going to speak up and say something to you as if you did something wrong? If you have gray hairs on top of your head then you can take full advantage of such a placard being a senior citizen as you would appear invisible to the law. If you have to pay for parking at many of the casinos in Las Vegas then you can call it reserved parking.
I know this is late; I left Tuesday to go on a trip and didn’t have Internet access until this weekend. I have to mildly chastise Mr. Dancer for writing the phrase “there are only a limited number of handicapped parking spots at many places”. In fact, ALL places only have a limited number of handicapped parking spaces, and very few spaces at that. Where have you ever seen a place that has an UNlimited number of handicapped parking spaces, or dozens of them? Nowhere. There are almost always very few, like 1 or 2 or 3 or 4. I am disabled and had a handicap placard when I had a car, and sometimes all the existing handicap parking spaces were filled, so there was no close place for me to park. So it would be even worse if non-handicapped people were occupying handicap parking spaces. “Advantage”? Well, using a handicap space instead of parking farther away is advantageous; and you are taking advantage of the fact that your pulling into the space isn’t being monitored “live” by anyone. I agree 100% with Bob Nelson that deception to get a placard is fraud; it’s also immoral and unethical, and to top it off, highly inconsiderate to truly handicapped people.
One more thing: On another note, I have to say that I am surprised by the definition of “advantage play” that is being proffered in this discussion. In the past, the term meant a situation created by a casino, period, that was advantageous to the player. The player didn’t create, help create, help determine, help define, or in any other way affect the positive situation. E.g.: A casino offers 9/6 Jacks or Better (99.54% EV) plus 0.5% cash back from the slot club during a special promotion, for a total play of 100.54% EV. The situation was created entirely by the casino; the player didn’t contribute to it at all. The player merely decides whether to partake in the advantage play, and thus to benefit from it. The act of creating an advantageous situation for yourself is something else entirely and should be given a different label.
“Overlay” is the technical gambling term. It means there is potential for more than 100% average player return. So, for example, at South Point, on multiplier days, there is potential for overlay. And at casinos with full play deuces wild, there is another potential for overlay. The casino does this on purpose because it knows no one can actually play to the full computer perfect potential, there is always an error rate, and this error rate removes the potential overlay. Even Bob Dancer, no doubt the greatest video poker player in the known universe, has admitted to making mistakes, so, THERE IS ALWAYS AN ERROR RATE FOR HUMAN PLAY IN A CASINO ENVIRONMENT. Excuse the caps, but I’m trying to make a point. And by your definition, this would not be an “advantage play” because the casino does it knowingly. Now, there are other plays, like seeing cards on a table game or being able to read the back of the cards like the Ivey situation. These obviously were not intentional on the part of the casino, so perhaps these are “player generated advantage plays”. But I think the main problem with this term “advantage player” is that casinos just use this for anyone who wins, from the casino’s perspective if you win then you must be one of those evil “advantage players”. Of course that’s ridiculous, most winners, if not all winners, just happened to get lucky. In the case of video poker, hitting a royal is just plain dumb luck, even when Bob Dancer does it.
I enjoyed your article and the points you made, but would like to offer what I consider a simple example of “Advantage Play” that directly relates to gaming. If a casino offers to provide club card members “free play” up to a certain amount of money for taking money out of an ATM at their casino and showing their receipt, that provides an opportunity customers can take “advantage” of. A customer could choose to accept the “free play”, save their winnings from the free play in addition to enjoying any free beverages, etc. they might be offered and receive while playing that free play and then not spend any other money on playing. With an offering like that, it is possible for customers to enjoy their time at a casino (for however often and / or long it goes on) and actually “earn” money to take home with them with they leave. Of course, casinos know most people will tend to spend the “free play” and then go on to spend some or all of what they withdrew from the casino’s ATM. But an “Advantage Player” could use it as an earning opportunity instead.
I enjoyed reading this post about advantage play. I love the idea of using intelligence or knowledge to gain an advantage where there otherwise wouldn’t be one. I’m new to the whole topic of advantage play, and I can’t stop thinking about it now.
Does anyone know where I can learn more about this topic? I’d love to find advantage play with regards to maximizing reward, minimizing expense, and just “optimizing” so I can get the biggest bang for the buck. A simple example would be signing up for a casino player’s card, or a rewards credit card, and being rewarded for play and/or spend that you would have made anyways.
I’m very intrigued so please share whatever knowledge you may have. Thank you in advance!
Search: “Your money or your life”. You’re welcome.