Bonnie and I recently checked into a local casino comped room. We don’t really “need” a room — we’re locals living about 15 miles away — but Bonnie doesn’t drive anymore, I was planning on playing four hours or so in a particular promotion, and we wanted to eat dinner together at the casino.
Bonnie is a non-player (well, she allows herself $5 sometimes at nickels, until it goes). Video poker is basically my avocation/vocation. She’ll take along some books on tape. Often, she’ll get her exercise by walking through the air-conditioned casinos, which are much cooler than Vegas in the summertime. She knows how to use Zoom, and sometimes she’ll have a nice chat with one of her friends or relatives while she’s waiting.
This time, though, when we got there, all the machines were turned off on one-half of the casino — including the only machines that, in my opinion, were worth playing under the current promotion. I asked a slot floor person what was going on and she said the machines would be down for somewhere between two and six hours, depending on how the slot maintenance went. But in the meantime, there were still some video poker machines on the other side of the casino.
I briefly scouted the available machines and found them as bad as I remembered. Instead of regular 8/5 Bonus, which is the highest returning machine in this casino, they had the 8/5 Bonus version where all 4-of-a-kinds return 30-for-1. This turns a 99.17% game into one that returns 98.48%. No thanks.
There were no other nearby casinos where I had plays, our dinner reservation wasn’t for another five hours, and home was 15 miles away. I could scout other nearby casinos, which is frequently a good use of time. But I was a bit tired from several recent long plays. So, I went up to our room and took a nap. At 74 years of age, I find myself taking naps more than I ever did when I was younger. Still, if the machines aren’t available until after dinner, I’m going to be playing much later than I originally planned and the sleep from the nap would come in handy.
As I lay in bed, I contemplated what to do if pay schedule changes were included in this “slot maintenance.” This casino was currently on my “barely playable” list during some promotions, and a decrease in the pay schedules would remove it from that list altogether — probably, depending on what those changes were. With the current promotion, I could still live with 9/7/5 Double Bonus (99.11%), 9/6 Double Double Bonus (98.98%) or the 15-9-4-4-3 version of Deuces Wild (98.91%), but nothing worse.
If the games were changed to anything tighter than what I’ve just listed, I’d cash out what I’d already earned on the promotion and not finish it. The number of casinos that both welcome my play and have playable games keeps dwindling, and I hate to lose another place, but that happens periodically and is a fact of life in my business. I didn’t worry about it now. I just slept for a couple of hours and would figure it out when I saw the results of the maintenance.
Two hours later, some of the machines had been turned back on, but the bank of machines that were of interest to me were still down. I saw a man who looked like a slot technician and asked him if he was part of the slot department.
When he said yes, I asked him how long it was going to be before the bank of machines I wanted to play were turned on. He graciously said that he was in the process of turning them all back on and if I tell him the bank of machines I’m interested in he’d go turn those games on right now. Perfect! This time, had I not asked, it might have been another 15 minutes or an hour before I had access to “my” game.
When the machines were turned on, I checked the game I wanted and it was still 8/5 Bonus. (I check pay schedules every time before I begin to play anyway, but especially after a maintenance. That’s the time that changes usually happen.) So, I sat down and began to play. We were a bit later leaving the casino than we had originally planned, but everything worked out okay. This time.
This particular time I lost more than average playing the game, but I put that down to normal variance. I do not believe that this maintenance “tightened” the machines in any regard. If I continue to do badly on these machines over time I’ll reconsider. A sample size of one play is far too little to draw conclusions from.
It doesn’t always turn out okay, and I’m prepared to leave a casino if conditions aren’t to my liking. But it’s much better if I can still play. For at least a little longer.
I was stuck at Green Valley Ranch when their computer system (tickets & tax forms) crashed causing all transactions to be manual. It took hours to get a handpay. After final getting a jackpot paid, I went to lunch and then to my room for a nap.
I don’t think that I can recall a time when after “maintenance” that machines were as good or better when said “maintenance” was completed during the 30+ years I have been visiting Vegas.
It’s hard to say if a certain bank pays more or less within just 1 session of play. The fact is, even the machine right next to you has , in particular if it’s a multi game bank, where somebody sits down and hits a big payout even on a version with much lower payout percentage.
Sometimes the machines are being checked and perhaps new graphics or sound or buttons or additional players club features are being installed, or they’re simply checking the meters or whatever. I would never assume that after maintenance a machine gets greedier or whatever, especially if the pay schedule is unchanged.
From that point-of-view, I have to agree with you, David. I have seen machines being added and removed, but I honestly have never been witness when a jackpot amount was transfered onto a different bank, because this very scarsely happens and when it happens it’s time to jump on that new bank where the funds from the other machines (probably taken out of operation) was added. They do it oftentimes at nights when nobody’s in the casino, and when you show up the next morning, eye-popping surprises occur while you’re sipping on your Starbucks coffee 🙂
From Switzerland
Boris
Bob
Don’t you think the proper name for the game with all quads at 150 is Jacks or Better, not Bonus
Richard
I do, Richard. And I wrote as much 20 or so years ago when they first came out.
I’m no expert writer or player, but all the jacks or better pay tables that I’ve ever seen in casinos, the quads pay 125 coins, not 150. A few days ago the details of this 3 month promotion were posted here:
https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?6628-Breaking-down-a-strong-video-poker-promo&highlight=binion
Nudge, you’re being modest. You are a far more accomplished player than many who respond here.
Yes Jacks or Better machines typically pay 125 for quads. BUT, the features that makes Jacks or Better machines Jacks or Better machines are:
1. Two pair pays 2-for-1
2. All quads pay the same
Bonus Poker has different criteria, namely
1. Two pair pays 2-for-1
2. Quads pay 125, 200, or 400, depending
Somebody mentioned DDB. for me the criteria for that game are”
1. Two pair pays 1-for-1
2. Quads pay 250, 400, 800, or 2000, depending
All three of these games include you get your money back for a pair of jacks or better.
For the game we’re talking about, it fits far more into the Jacks or Better category than the Bonus Poker category. Yes you’re correct that 150 is not the usual payout — but it still fits the overall definition.
Maybe this is something to ask IGT why they did this.
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care what a game (table or machine) is labeled or named. If it’s beatable, I’ll play it. If not, I won’t.
These are all just variants of Jacks or Better. Even Double Double Bonus is a variation or JoB.
If you’re on a tight schedule with casinos available in the neighborhood, I don^t think a 10-15 minutes drive is something to bother. As an invited guest of the hotel with the meal and room offer then of course it’s a little different story. The point is, however, you were given the free room with dinner first I guess? So if you then decide not to play much because the machines were shut down it’s definetely not your problem but rather their problem and in case a host would show up and ask I would them tell straight up that I had come to play very special machines in particular but since the techs did some maintenance I would not play. Another comped room and dinner can’t impossibly be a reason to take you off from the list of invited guests in the future. You could even mention that on a comment card. But you said you prefer to remain under cover. Not so sure if people from that particular casino are also spying out websites such as this and would forward this to managment in which case you are not flying below the radar anyways…
From Switzerland
Boris
I am a pretty good amateur player, not as advanced as any of you guys. Bob says that the pay table stayed the same, but his vote was still out if they tightened the machine. “I do not believe that maintenance “tightened” the machine in any regard”. If maintenance did not lower the pay tables, how else could they “tighten” the machine? Is there some new legal program that allows a less random, more controlled outcome? I thought that was illegal in Nevada, or mostly anywhere else for that matter. With the Indian casinos in CA, I am not so sure what they do.
You’re correct. Vegas Class III VP machines operate on a RNG and Pay Schedule and cannot be “tightened”.
….legally…
I once stayed at the same hotel as a sitting President of the United States, Richard Nixon, at the fabulous Kahala Hilton in Honolulu… The POTUS and Secret Service took the top three floors for themselves, 8-10, we were on 7. My grandmother was taking me and my brother back to our room, on the elevator with us was a dapper Secret Service man, we got out at 7 and he hurriedly followed us and bolted in front of us and loudly asked us what we are doing there. Grandma said we are going to our room, he snapped back and said that can not be true. She told him this is the seventh floor, and that he is making a big mistake. That hardcore man realized his folly and immediately sulked away without even a cursory apology to an old lady and two young kids, the Secret Service certainly dress snazzy, they make FBI Special Agents look like Hobo Kelly, but they are not very polite… This has nothing to do with Bob and his power nap, carry on, nothing happening here…
Actually, any technician CAN tighten a machine, and quite easily. Inside all machines, there’s a panel that is labeled “SCREW THE PLAYER” and the tech can engage any of these features:
1. Deal nothing but RAZGU hands for an hour (not even a low pair).
2. Don’t give a quad for 5 hours.
3. Don’t give a straight flush for a week.
4. Don’t give a royal for a whole month.
5. Give lots of 4-to-the-royal’s but don’t fill any of them for a whole month.
6. Have the machine say “Sucker!” at 5-decibel volume, so the player thinks he is going nuts.
🙂
Is this what they call “beast mode” in video poker?
I recently have played a couple times at the new Two Kings Catawba Tribal Casino in Kings Mountain, NC. This is a temporary “startup” casino while the permanent casino is being built and expected to open late next year. Currently, it is an all-slots configuration with five hundred machines and opened July 1. I live about thirty miles from the casino, played this past Saturday and again last night. Saturday, the placed was packed with a short wait to enter, and over a short period of play time, the machine was very generous. I just got back from my second trip and I started playing about 3:30 this morning, right after a daily servicing of the machines. I played the very same machine and blew through my bankroll so fast I barely had time to get one soft drink. Coincidence??
We have always been told that the so called RNG determines the payback as the pay tables say. Should call it a simulated RNG as there is no true RNG except in nature. We all see video poker machines that go thru hot and cold cycles. I look for one in hot cycle. I have done that for 20 years and I still have my original bankroll. I of course play just the higher paying machines. The ? Is can the RNG be adjusted in anyway. In past Nevada gaming commission says this is illegal. I talked to a gaming comm guy at Harrah’s. He was checking location of all the machine. Why? Changing location of hot machine would be illegal. However I have witnessed casino employees changing chips in the video poker machines. Perhaps there could be article on gaming commission current refs.
On a related note the Atlantis in Reno has been monkeying around with pay schedules on new machines so that there is no 5-coin “bonus”, it only jumps up when you play 10 coins. I found this out to my detriment when I played Bonus Poker on a brand spanking new machine in the high limit area and didn’t know they had done this, when all the other machines in this area were “normal”. I was DEALT a royal and imagine my anger when I got payed $1500 instead of the typical $4000! A $2500 hit to my wallet. I vowed to get even on that machine during that trip and the next day did when I hit four deuces for $1000 and then one for $2000 two minutes later, playing Deuces Wild, which had a 5-coin bonus for royals. I got even and then some! Moral of the story is to always check paytables before playing, no matter the machine or game…also not a bad idea to check the function of all buttons, especially at a bar with people spilling drinks into the machine.
The discussion focusing on whether “techs” or other casino personnel can change slot chips to lower the return percentage, this is from an earlier QoD about the subject:
“All gaming devices must: (a) Theoretically pay out a mathematically demonstrable percentage of all amounts wagered, which must not be less than 75 percent for each wager available for play on the device. (b) Determine game outcome solely by the application of: (1) Chance; (2) The skill of the player; or (3) A combination of the skill of the player and chance. (c) Display in an accurate and non-misleading manner: (1) The rules of play; (2) The amount required to wager on the game or series of games in a gaming session; (3) The amount to be paid on winning wagers; (4) Any rake-off percentage or any fee charged to play the game or series of games in a gaming session; (5) Any monetary wagering limits for games representative of live gambling games; (6) The total amount wagered by the player; (7) The game outcome; and (8) Such additional information sufficient for the player to reasonably understand the game.”
So, say a casino (owner/manager/high-up) orders from the vendor 20 Buffalo machines, 12 with the minimum (75% apparently) pay out percentage, 4 with 80%, 3 with 85%, and 1 with 89% payout. (Just my made up percentages other than the 75%). The casino is within the regulations because all are set within the minimum payout percentage with a few are set higher to maintain customer interest.
Imagine a slot tech being assigned “Change the chip in Buffalo machine number 6472300 to 75%.” Couldn’t that create one heck of a cheating situation? As in the tech could share this info with his best buddies? (Psst, that one was set for lower pay; this one for higher pay.) Same for VP machines. I’m sure “somebody up there” knows the placement of machines around the casino and all that. If collusion could be traced to a slot tech (or other employee) wouldn’t that guy/gal would be in for some trouble? And we all know the one about how many people can keep a secret (answer: three, if two of them are dead). I’m sure we have slot techs on this site who can confirm or refute this.
Candy’s post and Jerry’s post are two of the best posts I have ever seen on this blog. We got some smart folks here!