Breaking News An Expert Doctor at John Hopkins diagnosis Trump with an EXPLOSIVE REPORT, TRUMP HAS DEMENTIA

Thanks, Candy, what you describe is a persistent vegetative state, or minimally conscious state; the notion is that the patient has no ability to sense or interact with the environment, no internal consciousness; it's felt to mostly map onto irreversible loss of all cortical function.  The patient will continue to breathe, thermoregulate, etc.; i.e., lower centers like the brainstem and the hypothalamus are still intact.  Brain death means irreversible loss of all higher and lower brain funcdtions; the patient will need mechanical ventilation and other extraordinary measures for the heart to continue to beat for a little while, but this is legally and ethically equivalent to death, heartbeat or not (there was a Uniform Determination of Death act, I think back in the 1970s, that legally codified that).

 

Just a lot of hyperbole, it gets tiresome here.

Originally posted by: O2bnVegas

OK, I'll clarify.  Joe Biden's condition of health does not even minimally meet the uninformed layman's label of "brain dead."

 

"Brain dead" is an unfortunate word/phrase, often used to denigrate someone who is fully alive.  It is not an accepted medical diagnosis.   Sadly even hospital personnel are heard lapsing into its use in casual conversation.

 

A person in cognitive decline, such as in dementia, is not "brain dead."

 

Brain dead correctly defined refers to a long term "wakeful unconsciousness" following severe brain injury from anoxia, now termed PVS, Persistent Vegetative State.   Diagnosis and ongoing care have medical, legal, and ethical complexity.  Now called iPVS, Irreversible PVS. 

 

In PVS there is minimal to no awareness or purposeful movement.  Often breathing continues after being restored, due to the effect of the beating heart.   

 

The case of Terri Schaivo illustrates the complexity of diagnosis, care, legal and ethical decision making in PVS.  Terri was in PVS for some 15 years after collapsing at home, age 26, found by her husband and being resuscitated by EMS.  Extensive neuro testing and brain imaging confirmed damage from prolonged lack of oxygen.  Her husband and her parents battled for years over whether to continue care which included nutrition by feeding tube.  The husband as legal NOK maintained Terri would not want to live in this state and would want the feeding tube removed, but there was no living will.  Years of legal wranglings over right to life, custody, who could decide, ensued.

 

In similar cases, loved ones interpret involuntary movements, such as a finger twitch, eye roll, facial grimace as signs of recovery.  Criteria for recovery includes 1) consciousness: awarness, consistent voluntary purposeful reactions to visual and auditory stimuli, engagement with others; and 2) function: communication, ability to learn and perform tasks, self-care, etc. 

 

For some, the removal of a feeding tube feels like 'depriving' the patient of food/nutrition.

 

As usual, ask me the time (is Joe Biden brain dead?) and I'll build you a clock.  Hope it informed.

 

Candy


    Everyone with a functioning "brain" knew exactly what I meant when I labeled Biden as being "brain dead". Anyone who posessed a functioning brain knew that Biden was mentally impared and totally unfit to be President. Lewis likes to play word games when found to be lying, as he has done here with his excuse about the "correctness" of the label I utilized to express Biden's mental condition - which he repeatedly denied as to being true, multiple times. Calling Biden "brain dead" is utilizing a slang term for one who has lost the mental ability to think and respond clearly and correctly to any situation requiring thinking. As defined on Google - ( I asked Google to define brain dead in modern slang) and here is the definition. --- In modern slang, "brain dead" describes something or someone acting completely clueless, unintelligent, or thoughtless. ---  Now all of you "wordsmiths" can feel good about yourselves as you have "proven" that my usage of calling Biden "brain dead" was not textbook correct. I used it because it was/is a fitting label as defined in Google. For all intents and purposes Biden was - and still is - "brain dead.

Originally posted by: jstewa22

Thanks, Candy, what you describe is a persistent vegetative state, or minimally conscious state; the notion is that the patient has no ability to sense or interact with the environment, no internal consciousness; it's felt to mostly map onto irreversible loss of all cortical function.  The patient will continue to breathe, thermoregulate, etc.; i.e., lower centers like the brainstem and the hypothalamus are still intact.  Brain death means irreversible loss of all higher and lower brain funcdtions; the patient will need mechanical ventilation and other extraordinary measures for the heart to continue to beat for a little while, but this is legally and ethically equivalent to death, heartbeat or not (there was a Uniform Determination of Death act, I think back in the 1970s, that legally codified that).

 

Just a lot of hyperbole, it gets tiresome here.


Thanks, jstewa22.   You make a good distinction here, between brain death and brain dead, the latter in appropriate usage only in the context of brain death, as determined by the qualified clinician.  Certainly not as applied in posts describing Joe Biden.   

 

Whew!  Tiresome for sure.

 

Candy

Originally posted by: jstewa22

So, there's the so-called "Goldwater rule."  Back in the 1960s, several psychiatrists said that Barry Goldwater had a paranoid personality disorder (perhaps he did), and the American Psychiatric Association rendered an opinion that it's unethical for a psychiatrist to diagnose a patient whom he/she hadn't examined.  Back in 2016, plenty of psychiatrists opined that Trump has a narcissistic personality disorder, but the Goldwater rule supressed a lot of public discourse about it, and should probably supress the talk about his having frontotemporal dementia.

 

That being said, a few comments:  

 

1)  Dementia is a progressive disorder.  Does Trump appear to be getting worse?  Not more emboldened, but worse?

 

2)  If he's suffering from dementia, does that remove any culpability for things that he's doing?

 

3)  David's "brain dead Biden" comments are just annoying hyperbole; he's not the only one here guilty of that.

 


1) Definitely worse, by any objective measure. Or any subjective measure, for that matter.

2) Mental impairments have been a successful defense in criminal and civil cases. The question has always been whether the subject retains a knowledge of right and wrong. I think that Trump knows the immorality of his actions, but doesn't care. Of course, not caring what happens to other people could be considered an aspect of his narcissism disorder.

 

Regardless of how you interpret 2), 1) means he should be removed from office. But no way will that happen.


Kevin, things are obviously getting worse, but keep in mind that things in Germany got a lot worse between 1933 and 1939, not because the leader had a progressive dementia.  Thus my use of the term "emboldened," and thus my concerns about culpability.

 

Keep in mind that narcissism can underpin stupid and impulsive statements; "everybody loves me and everything I say and do, so I can do no wrong."

Meanwhile back in Chicago last week the man who could have been president was on a stage looking for his granddaughter & had to be escorted out by his wife. 

Originally posted by: tom

Meanwhile back in Chicago last week the man who could have been president was on a stage looking for his granddaughter & had to be escorted out by his wife. 


Speaking of mental disorders, your Biden Derangement Syndrome is still roaring along, isn't it?

 

Or are you trying to make excuses for having voted for someone whose brain is in far worse shape than Biden's ever was?

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Speaking of mental disorders, your Biden Derangement Syndrome is still roaring along, isn't it?

 

Or are you trying to make excuses for having voted for someone whose brain is in far worse shape than Biden's ever was?


     You should know all about "someone whose brain is far worse" - you voted for brain dead Biden.

Originally posted by: jstewa22

Kevin, things are obviously getting worse, but keep in mind that things in Germany got a lot worse between 1933 and 1939, not because the leader had a progressive dementia.  Thus my use of the term "emboldened," and thus my concerns about culpability.

 

Keep in mind that narcissism can underpin stupid and impulsive statements; "everybody loves me and everything I say and do, so I can do no wrong."


Not a great parallel, because while being absolutely stone cold evil, Hitler's brain was very sharp and he was obviously functioning at full capacity. And he apparently didn't even suffer from any kind of clinical mental disorder (like our hero's pathological narcissism).

 

Perhaps the somewhat better parallel would have been Germany in mid-1944, when it was indeed obvious that Hitler was going loony tunes and a bunch of his underlings decided to exercise the Nazi equivalent of the 25th Amendment. 

 

Things did indeed get worse between 1933 and 1939, but then, you have to define "worse." Germany became stronger militarily, became much wealthier, became much more productive, and added the Rhineland, Czechoslovakia, and Austria to its territory. Obviously, the terrorizing and persecution of the Jews was well under way. But the reason why Hitler was emboldened is that the majority of Germans absolutely loved what he had done. We can't compare that with Trumpf, because a) everybody absolutely fucking hates what he's done, and b) he doesn't give two shits whether anyone does or not. Hitler was sensitive to and responsive to public opinion. That's why he took acting classes when he got out of prison--so he could talk to and coddle the masses.

 

But to return to culpability, Trumpf is obviously a narcissistic asshole, and that's gotten worse over time (though it was always inside his festering skull), but that, unfortunately, lessens his culpability for the awful things he's done. He's recently said twice that he doesn't care about the average American or the cost of living (kind of creepily forthright, actually). That's an honest statement, even a manifesto, of a pathological narcissist. As in, it would be a different statement if he had a soul and had just cast it aside--like Hitler did.

 

And sadly, all this talk is moot as long as his Cabinet and his House and Senate lackeys are the ones that would have to boot him out. No way in hell that would ever happen, even if he started babbling and drooling during a nationally televised Fox Nooze interview.

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