Okay, so no more J & J vaccines for a while. Wow, that's for our safety, right? One person has died due to blood clots, and one person has been hospitalized due to blood clots out of 7,000,000 one time shots.
The math to discontinue the shots is stupid. Thousands more will die, to save one person. Some don't understand the difference between science and logic.
1. I basically agree with Boiler, but there are nuances he doesn't understand. Nonetheless, that I think he's mostly correct means I need to bleach my brain.
2. What's going on is that the primary problem the CDC is fighting now is vaccine hesitancy. Already, the six blood clot cases have spawned dozens of conspiracy theories and internet memes. As I explained on another thread, this includes Tucker Carlson's expert medical advice, and no, I'm not going to post a link to that shit. So the pause recommendation is more about showing that we're bending over backwards to make sure the vaccines are safe and will stop distribution immediately if there's a problem, or even a hint of one.
3. Fauci and the CDC both said that the benefit of the J&J outweighs the risk, and notably, they issued recommendations, not orders. So if individual states want to exercise their judgment, they can. Oregon is saying they will continue to distribute the J&J, especially because of the threat of variants.
So this is about politics more than science, but unfortunately, the last four years and the general presence of the RepubliQ party means that the former often "Trumps" the latter in many people's minds. The last thing we need is a horde of anti-vaxxers screaming that the vaccine is a Deep State conspiracy to control us all and make us Bill Gates' slaves.
Boilerman, like a stopped clock, is rarely correct, but he is in this case. Obviously, the people at the CDC are playing CYA in spite of clear evidence that the benefits of the vaccine far outweigh the risks.
And since the buck stops you know where, I hold President Joe Biden responsible for this decision that is based far more on PR than it is on real science.
See Boilerman, it's possible to criticize a president even if he's a member of your party or agrees with your ideology. It's called NOT being a cult member. That's something you should aspire to.
Originally posted by: MisterPicture
Boilerman, like a stopped clock, is rarely correct, but he is in this case. Obviously, the people at the CDC are playing CYA in spite of clear evidence that the benefits of the vaccine far outweigh the risks.
And since the buck stops you know where, I hold President Joe Biden responsible for this decision that is based far more on PR than it is on real science.
See Boilerman, it's possible to criticize a president even if he's a member of your party or agrees with your ideology. It's called NOT being a cult member. That's something you should aspire to.
You can't validly hold Biden "responsible," since he's delegated vaccine science, data, and distribution to the CDC and his pandemic team (Fauci & Co), and in turn, the CDC has issued recommendations--not orders. it's ultimately up to the states re what they want to do with the J&J doses.
You may not be aware that both the CDC and Fauci have said exactly what you just said--that the benefits of the J&J vaccine greatly outweigh the risks. I maintain that the abundance of caution is to squelch the anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists, who otherwise might be able to reduce the public's confidence in all of the vaccines--and that would kill a lot of people.
So I don't think it's CYA here. They've explained the (very minimal) risks and are leaving it up to the states and ultimately, individuals to decide what to do. If I was deciding (I'm not, as I've already been vaccinated), the choice would be obvious.
Once again, Kevin is ill informed. The discontinuation of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is not a state by state decision.
Originally posted by: Boilerman
Once again, Kevin is ill informed. The discontinuation of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is not a state by state decision.
Yes, it is...because millions of doses have already been delivered. It's up to the states to decide whether to administer them or not. Furthermore, the J&J vaccine has not been and will not be "discontinued." Distribution has been paused. That's a major distinction.
As usual, Boiler, whenever there's the slightest bit of nuance or complexity in an issue, your brain becomes overloaded.
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis
You can't validly hold Biden "responsible," since he's delegated vaccine science, data, and distribution to the CDC and his pandemic team (Fauci & Co), and in turn, the CDC has issued recommendations--not orders. it's ultimately up to the states re what they want to do with the J&J doses.
Would you - or I - have criticized the Trump administration for a similar move? Of course, we would have. Biden appointees run the CDC and the FDA, so it's ultimately on him.
Originally posted by: MisterPicture
Would you - or I - have criticized the Trump administration for a similar move? Of course, we would have. Biden appointees run the CDC and the FDA, so it's ultimately on him.
The difference is that Trump insisted on lording it over every phase and aspect of the operation, because his goal was not to stop the pandemic but rather, to maximize his reelection chances. Therefore, I would view any Trump move as based on that objective. I view any Biden move as based on the relevant science and the objective of stopping the virus.
Now, of course, Biden has the luxury of not having to worry (now) about reelection, and maybe his decisions in 2024 will be tainted in the same way Trump's were in 2020. But there's another, simpler metric--Trump is a selfish, narcissistic asshole who acts only from self-interest. Biden is a good man. Therefore, if Biden's administration makes a misstep, I assume that its/their intentions were good, and I'm more inclined to forgive such a mistake. The Trump administration's mistakes were more often than not due to indifference or even outright malevolence.
I suppose anyone could say that I'm using a double standard here, but I maintain that when a good man makes a mistake, it's more forgivable than when a bad man does. And it's not Democrat vs. Republican (as I'm sure our resident Trumptards would claim). It's good guy vs. asshole.
Kevin, if you respond to every possible Biden misfire with, "but he's better than Trump," this could get tedious.
But by what metric is the pausing of the J&J vaccine a "Biden misfire"? Keep in mind that as I pointed out earlier, it's as much about squelching vaccine hesitancy as the safety of the vaccine(s) per se.
That aside, even a Biden "misfire" is better than a Trump deliberate wrong. Biden won't intentionally do anything evil or stupid; Trump routinely and purposefully did both.
To me, that distinction matters.
