Only an absolute fool would take an unproven medication, especially when something else that has actually been shown to be highly effective is easily available.
But then, only an absolute fool would have voted for Trump...or gets his information from Facebook...or listens to Fox News and does what they tell him.
I sense a strong correlation.
Meanwhile, Americans are still sitting in aircraft on a runway in Afghanistan, being forced to wait to return to the US while the corrupt Biden administration pats themselves on their backs for their "success story" of the evacuation in Afghanistan. If these Americans ever return to the US, I wonder just how many of them would vote for Biden and his band of traitors in the future? I believe we know who the real "fools" are....
Originally posted by: PJ Stroh
Thanks for asking....no, I'd tell my doctor to eat shit.
There's an approved antibody and immune boosting treatments that are readily available at every neighborhood hospital. Ask our former president who utilized them .... Note - he was not treated with an unapproved treatment promoted by doctors who have skin in the game for that products' profitablity.
This was a worthy conversation to have in April 2020. But Why on earth would any sane person dabble with unproven treatments when there are proven treatments readily available? I dont have a sane answer. And neither does Charles.
There is only one FDA approved treatment...remdesivir. It's $3000 a dose and only approved for use for hospitalized patients in a hospital setting. The others are running under an EUA while they're being tested.
Which brings up a question. Why on earth would there be major clinical trials of ivermectin taking place right now if as PJ suggest we already have a proven cure? Why are so many people dying if the current proven treatments work so well? Perhaps PJ didn't realize that sometimes patients are prescribed more than one medication to treat an illness.
The fact is that there are promising peer reviewed random clinical trials of this drug. The fact is that there are currently major clinical trials with over 15,000 participants taking place right here in the USA. I believe that's been my point all along even though you and Kevin want to straw man this into a veterinary clinic, orange man bad political discussion.
If these trials prove that that ivermectin works for early stage covid or reduces patient deaths in hospitalized patents or works as a prophylaxis then wouldn't it just be a safe, inexpensive treatment in our medical toolbox? If my doctor suggests that based on his analysis it could help me with very little risk I would certainly take it because....I trust my doctor a lot more than PJ or Kevin. I've got a feeling that neither of them are Doctors or Statisticians or qualified to pass judgement on peer reviewed medical analysis….nor am I really.
That’s why I thought I made it clear that there are ‘promising studies’ and large scale clinical trials are underway. I have never claimed it’s definitive or unquestionably effective. Only that it merits study and is an issue between you and your doctor. But hey…If you want to poo poo the concept because you obsessively don’t like repurposed horse dewormer or parasite treatments that might help us with this global pandemic then carry on. I'll just follow the science and my doctor's advice.
Using sane, logical thinking is an apparent waste of time and effort when dealing with some people. I do believe that if some of these naysayers were facing death from covid they would grasp at any and all possible treatments - and then there are those who would rather die than give another possible medication a chance to save their lives. You can lead a horse to water -- you know the rest.
Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic.
Remdesivir is an anti-viral.
Covid is a virus, not a parasite.
I'll bet against Ivermectin for Covid, though I know it has a purpose in human medical intervention, has had for a long time. It already is in use for scabies and intestinal worms. In my younger days as a nurse I witnessed the removal of a live worm from a kid's intestinal tract. It happens, they eat dirt, ya know. I don't know if he was given any medicine. The worm was put in a bottle and shown around. Ick.
In our time, people beg doctors for antibiotics for a bad cold. Antibiotics are not indicated for the common cold, which is usually viral. Doctors give in to patient's begging for antibiotics. Most of us have taken some when they weren't actually indicated, but we were sure they would work faster than rest and fluids etc. Often our symptoms improved and we credited the antibiotic, though likely we would have improved anyway. Now we are resistant to those antibiotics and when the time comes we really need them they may not help because we have developed resistance. Antibiotics given to livestock are part of the antibiotic resistance problem, but that's a topic for another day.
Candy
What Charles may not realize is that this consideration of the horsey pills--I won't say "clinical trials" or "scientific studies," because that's not what's happening--is because some opportunists are seeing this as a way to make money off of the brain-dead no-vax crowd.
You see, those folks pretty much make their decisions and form their opinions in spite of science and factual info, not because of it. They do whatever Mother Tucker et al. tell them. So the sharks are smelling blood in the water. This is a (successful) effort to make money from stupid people. Nothing more or less than that.
Everything Candy posted is true. I don't advocate taking anything that is fully untested, but, if I was on my death bed and was given the option of trying a medication that could save my life, I would definately give that choice my consideration. That decision is a personal choice and one I believe everyone should have the opportunity to make. Granted, the medication may not work, but then again, if faced with the possibility of dying, I would like to have that choice.
Originally posted by: O2bnVegas
Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic.
Remdesivir is an anti-viral.
Covid is a virus, not a parasite.
I'll bet against Ivermectin for Covid, though I know it has a purpose in human medical intervention, has had for a long time. It already is in use for scabies and intestinal worms. In my younger days as a nurse I witnessed the removal of a live worm from a kid's intestinal tract. It happens, they eat dirt, ya know. I don't know if he was given any medicine. The worm was put in a bottle and shown around. Ick.
In our time, people beg doctors for antibiotics for a bad cold. Antibiotics are not indicated for the common cold, which is usually viral. Doctors give in to patient's begging for antibiotics. Most of us have taken some when they weren't actually indicated, but we were sure they would work faster than rest and fluids etc. Often our symptoms improved and we credited the antibiotic, though likely we would have improved anyway. Now we are resistant to those antibiotics and when the time comes we really need them they may not help because we have developed resistance. Antibiotics given to livestock are part of the antibiotic resistance problem, but that's a topic for another day.
Candy
Candy, what you're saying is easy to understand, but far, far beyond the grasp of the anti-vax crowd. I strongly suspect as well that the elevated stature given to misinformation and disinformation these days has a lot to do with the horsey pill-takers' credulity.
I mean, think of it. Say, twenty years ago, could you have conceived of people listening to conservative pundits and snake oil salesmen when making critical health care decisions? Could you ever have imagined, "My doctor says get the vaccine but Tucker Carlson says I should take horse dewormer, so I'm going to listen to him, not my doctor?"
I would never have thought that there were so many people out there who were that stupid. But then, of course, none of us expected the 75 million, either.
Maybe our society is like "Brave New World"--a large underclass of morons who are medicated to keep them that way.
What Candy said...
And this....you are now moving the goal posts of your argument. I've already said I'm happy to embrace any medication that has been tested and cleared as an approved treatement of COVID. If Ivermectin reaches that status I'm happy to get on board.
But thats not what you asked - You asked if a doctor prescribed it would I accept it. My answer is "Hell No". Because its not approved. And there are therapies that are. A doctor who ignores those in favor of something that not proved should be sued for malpractice and lose his license.
And Im not aware of any big "studies" that are looking for the impact of the pesticide Ivermectin on a virus. The one you cited to start this thread was a sham. And thats the same study FOX News and all the big media outlets on the right are pointing too. So until I see something credible, I'm calling bullshit on the "promising studies" narrative
Have COVID Free day
Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis
What Charles may not realize is that this consideration of the horsey pills--I won't say "clinical trials" or "scientific studies," because that's not what's happening--is because some opportunists are seeing this as a way to make money off of the brain-dead no-vax crowd.
You see, those folks pretty much make their decisions and form their opinions in spite of science and factual info, not because of it. They do whatever Mother Tucker et al. tell them. So the sharks are smelling blood in the water. This is a (successful) effort to make money from stupid people. Nothing more or less than that.
You really know so very little. You won't say 'clinical trials'. Why not? That's what our very own CDC classifies them as. But it's YOU who doesn't believe this. It's you who form your opinion in spite of science. Are you claiming that the National Center for Advancing Translational Science (NCATS) and Vanderbilt University Medical Center are opportunists exploiting the 'no-vax' crowd?
Link to 15,000 person Ivermectin trial in progress:
ACTIV-6: COVID-19 Study of Repurposed Medications - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
Serious question: Why would such a prestigious medical center be studying 'horsey pills' yet Kevin rejects it out of hand as Tucker Carlson advice for the brain dead? Isn't it clear there have been promising results that merit more study? Did Kevin or PJ personally review any of the studies in the meta analysis I linked to or the meta analysis itself? Or are they happy with the Politico hack check? Of course they didn't read any of it. Not that they would understand it. It's easier just to say 'horsey pills'.
Now, if PJ and Kevin are really interested in science they'd simply to go the CDC clinical trial web page. Type in Covid as the condition and Ivermectin as the treatment. They will find no fewer than 79 world wide studies and clinical trials in various states of completion. If it was all a mean joke from Tucker Carlson you'd think none of these hundreds of scientists and medical centers would be conducting these studies. But all Kevin is trying to do is attack people he doesn't like with science he doesn't understand. Sad.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/home
As to Candy's fine point that Ivermectin is not known as an anti-viral, The below link shows what the Proposed Mechanism of Action and Rationale for Use in Patients With COVID-19. It gets pretty technical. But the fact remains, there are many promising studies. So now PJ and Kevin are aware at lest 79 of them world wide being tracked by the CDC and a large scale clinical trial in progress in the US you can go ahead and admit your out of hand condemnation was purely political and premature.
Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines (nih.gov)
Every government issued note on Ivermectin says there isn't enough evidence or we need large scale clinical trials. That's what I've been saying. It's promising. It merits further study. The use of it is between you and your doctor. That is a far cry from the anti-science horsey pill narative.
