Mask & Distance Debate

First off let me say this. I don't like Donald Trump and I don't like Joe Biden, I think what both stand for is bad for this country. So now that you know I'm not Red or Blue let me begin.

I've had it with the Masks. Period. 

If they want to say this is the new normal and we have to "social distance and wear a mask" for the rest of time, then I say lets end it all and nuke the fucking planet. Grandma and Grandpa want to leave their house, schools need to be open so god forbid kids might learn something, businesses need to be able to have more than 10 people inside at a time.

Yes people will die, I'll probably be one of them as I'm overweight with diabetes and 48 yrs old. Note to everyone, nobody lives forever.

Maybe this is natures way of culling the herd, maybe it was manufactured either way I don't care!

I was at Costco Sunday in Henderson and there was a guy in his early 20's with his Trump 2020 hat and no mask with his mommy who was wearing basically a piece of cheesecloth on her face. When I first saw them I told my wife this isn't going to go well. Both were doing the "I'm up to no good" head turning, you could tell they were looking for someone to say something. Time to checkout and they are in the line next to us. The kid is asked to put on his mask and snaps back it's not a law I don't have too. The stare down ensued, I litteraly thought they were going to go at it, a little chest puffing from each guy and the kid backed down and covered his face.

Now like I said I hate these fucking mask. But if you are in a private business and one that you had to pay a membership too, that also says you go by their rules, then you do. If Costco says you have to wear Ronald McDonald shoes to shop in their store, then guess what, you wear the damn shoes or you don't join.

People need to understand the difference of when and where to wear a mask. Costco can be fined by the state for not telling him to put on his mask just like the casinos are.

It's not a matter of private versus public space. People can infect each other in either type of surroundings. There are mask mandates precisely because we can't rely on people to behave responsibly. Sad but true.

You might have seen the figures stating that if we wear masks at a 95% compliance rate, there will be 100,000 fewer deaths by the end of the year. So fine, I wear one, any time I'm going to be near other people. It's not that inconvenient or uncomfortable. I often forget I'm wearing one.

If I'm selfish and thoughtless and decide to not wear a mask, I could infect and sicken and maybe kill someone else--or someone else could infect and sicken and maybe kill me. So wearing a mask is simple common sense and common decency. Mask mandates shouldn't be necessary, and yes, it's idiotic that mask wearing has been politicized. It's like politicizing seat belts.

You state what's called a false dichotomy. The choice is not between wearing masks and keeping things shut down forever and ever and ever and ever and doing nothing at all. Soon, we'll have better and better treatments and maybe, just maybe, a widely available and effective vaccine. Life will slowly return to normal, though not until the spring of 2021 at the absolute earliest.

So everybody should endure all this for a little while longer, we'll sweep the scumbags who made this crisis worse out of office, we'll get financial help to people and businesses that are struggling, and we'll wait for the scientists to help us, as they always have. Between now and then, I'm going to have to wear a mask and practice social distancing. So will you. It won't kill either of us. This, too, shall pass.

How can they say there will be 100k less deaths? You and I both know they can't make that assertion. Hell everyday they keep changing what we should do and what you shouldn't. Don't wear mask to wear a mask. Stay 6ft away to it goes much further than 6ft. It doesn't live on surfaces very long to it lives on some things for up to a month. Our CDC, while I understand it has been prodded by our Fuher and Chief still doesn't have a clue.

It's indisputable that lack of mask compliance leads to more future deaths. Of course, the 100,000 figure was an estimate. What's the difference whether it's 100,000 or 72,398 or 123,888? I'll wear a mask if doing so results in ONE less death. But that's just me, I suppose.

The reason why the guidelines keep changing is that our collective knowledge of what works and what doesn't keeps increasing. Y'know, science.

And science might also show us that all is for naught.

Will there be a vaccine? Will there be better treatments? Will it just disappear? Will it be like the flu and mutate every year? Or will it kill 30-40k/yr just like the flu?

Maybe it's time to let nature do it's thing and weed out the weak just like it has done for millenia. 

Don't fear death. Like I said earlier, we're all gonna die at some point. Get shot by a thug on the strip, Capt. Tripps, Covid-19 or natural causes, today, tomorrow or 30 years from now.

No, it won't--it's already shown us that precautions and proper behavior matter. You may want to throw your hands in the air and say "we're all gonna die, so let's just let 'er rip" (a sentiment shared by others on this board), but I don't. We have plenty of evidence from this country and around the world that basic precautions reduce cases and deaths.

And saying you don't fear death is fine, but maybe other people you come in contact with don't feel the same way. I would still observe mask wearing and social distancing even if I didn't care about my own health.

The social Darwinist viewpoint utterly ignores the fact that the physically weakest and most vulnerable members of society are often the most valuable contributors. It hasn't been about physical toughness since we all lived in caves. And maybe not even then.

Rick, do you know what empirical evidence is? Based on what you wrote I kind of doubt it, but I'll proceed anyway.

If you look outside the US, you'll see lots of countries that have dramatically lowered infection rates and death rates because of mandatory masks, distancing, partial lockdowns, and very aggressive contact tracing and testing. As a result, their economies are recovering faster, and some of them even have public sporting events with actual fans in attendance.

Here's a crazy thought. Maybe we should be doing what they're doing.

The evidence is showing a rise in those countries again also after they opened back up. The UK is seeing levels now almost 4 times as high as they did in April.

Yes. But the people running those countries have been subjected to enormous political pressure. Opening up was a terrible idea. The results of doing so just reinforce the concept that we should all be wearing masks and practicing social distancing--this pandemic ain't over by a long shot.

But he said we should be doing what they are.

When is it not considered a pandemic anymore? Less than 100k/yr worldwide? I'm curious to know the number they consider safe. I mean annual flu death worldwide is around 400k and nobody gives two shits about that anymore, we don't even know how many people truly get it because most people take care of it without reporting it.

My wife is a nurse and yes the numbers are exagerated because the hospitals can receive more compensation for a covid death or just a positive test. They know the insurance companies don't ask any questions or reject any claim that has covid on it right now.

How many of the 1+ million deaths that they say are from covid are truly covid only?