This Rolling Stone piece hits the nail on the head. Deficits only matter when Democrats are the President

Originally posted by: LiveFreeNW

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Depends on how you sell it. You could stress the cost savings and efficiencies that could be created. 

 

As far as the distancecentive to work is concerned I would reply: 

 

If we were starting from ground zero, that could certainly be the case but we are not. We are starting with the current "welfare state". We are already spending money on this issue. This is about making it more efficient and streamlined to save money and reduce fraud. 

 

It provides no more disincentive to work than the current system.

 

In fact it provides less disincentive to work than the current system. 

 

If someone receiving benefits gets a job and stops benefits, it can be very difficult to get back on welfare if they lose that job a year or two later. This is a powerful disincentive against finding work and encourages people to get trapped in the system long-term. 

 

A negative income tax would eliminate that problem. 

 

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Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

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As far as fraud is concerned, or wastefraudabuse as MAGA terms it, I can see people earning money under the table to avoid having their tax credits lowered/eliminated. But I suppose that's prevalent now.

 

How would you feel about the government simply providing basic food, clothing, shelter, and medical care to everyone, and the first X% of income being taxed, on some kind of graduated scale? Much like today's system, we could exempt the first $X of earnings from taxation.

 

My thought is, you could choose to live a basic life, with survival and health assured, but if you wanted any kind of amusement, luxuries, or possessions, you'd have to earn them by working. Then your earnings would be taxed, mildly at first but then steeply progressively.

 

This would be effectively a negative income tax with an initial exemption (first $10K earned, something like that, would be tax-free). But rather than a cash payment to non- or low earners, that would be tendered in the form of the basic stuff of life, as detailed above. You might live in a dormitory, eat bland cafeteria food, etc., but you could survive and do so indefinitely if you wanted.

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Originally posted by: tom

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Iran has refused to concede that point & what about the missile program?

 

What about funding and arming terrirists?

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Originally posted by: tom

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I don't believe the US should start a war for Israel's benefit.

 

Iran is developing intercontinental missiles which can only be used to attack the US by an insane leadership that has been screaming death to America for 47 years.

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Originally posted by: tom

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I don't believe the US should start a war for Israel's benefit.

 

Iran is developing intercontinental missiles which can only be used to attack the US by an insane leadership that has been screaming death to America for 47 years.

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Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

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Thank you. I will in fact have a very nice Mothers' Day. You as well (facetious as that wish on your part may have been).

 

I was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that you would call me a "radical." Anyone who disagrees with MAGA is automatically assigned that label. I blame you not. You had no more control over that reflex than a baby has over its bowels.

 

I continue to believe and think that conservatism is fundamentally flawed. It is also fundamentally immoral. However, there are thousands of sociopolitical philosophies out there that are even worse in those regards. So it would be merely an intellectual exercise to evaluate conservatism if my and all of our lives weren't currently being run by that philosophy--and fucked up big time as a result.

 

And of course, a true conservative government wouldn't be that bad (albeit putting us about eight decades behind the rest of the world intellectually and technologically), but what we actually have now is some fascistic funhouse mirror/clown car version of it, driven by one of the most evil men to ever walk the earth. I've been shocked and saddened by how few--how very, very, very few--Republicans have repudiated their party for its allegiance to that Orange Thing.

 

You don't need to scurry to that argument that the Democrats used to be this country's racist assholes and the Republicans were the liberal reformers. DUH. I'm not talking about 1885. I'm talking about the present. What YOU'RE doing is talking about "my party" as if my allegiance was to the label, rather than to the ideas and ideals they currently support. If they chuck those ideas overboard, then I'll drop them like the proverbial hot potato.

 

BUT--you haven't done the same to your Republican masters for violating your/their cherished ideals, have you? Support for the Constitution and the rule of law? Checks and balances? No man is above the law? That quaint ol' Bill of Rights? All toilet tissue to the Republicans, all of a sudden. 

 

Oh, and regarding government debt/finances, please don't do the weak Tom-shit of putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that the debt isn't a problem, and you're lying when you say that I did. What I said was that its magnitude was ameliorated by our #1 position on the world debt market. I said that was the reason why that debt hasn't crushed us. I also said that the evil and stupid actions of YOUR party are jeopardizing that. Doesn't the public believe, haven't they always believed, that the Republicans may be assholes, but they're the ones who can better manage the purse strings (despite the exact opposite being true, but never mind)? If they lose that faith, well, the Republican Party will join the Whig Party on the ash heap of history. And lest you believe I would consider that a good thing...I don't. One-party rule would be horrible no matter which party it was.

 

Believe it or not, I do respect your positions, because I think you never had any choice in the matter and at least you're true to them. I grew up in a pretty conservative household, albeit with a few kinks. But I was lucky in that my dad was kind of laissez-faire about it all. I can only pity today's conservative household children who are forced to kneel and kiss Trump's portrait before they can start dinner.

 

I hope the scales fall from your eyes someday. Truly. If not, I hope you're happy.

 

 

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Originally posted by: Nines

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Heh..you're a radical apoplectic mess. You don't define your views and presentation methods as "radical" though do ya? For the sake of fairness let's just call them "atypically nontraditional" ? Many Sink back and forth mudslinging episodes are ultimately nonproductive interludes that defy reason , compromise, and any form of civil solution; you are personally involved in many such episodes. They are representative of that analogously demonstrated by a pen of hyenas at a local zoo and, yes, similar to media scenes we observe daily in real life due to deranged souls on all sides of the political spectrum.  I'm not interested in that type of discourse and am guilty as charged of personal involvement in it in here on occasion. I intend to curb that involvement and a big part of that intent will be to not engage you in the Sink. I can have reasonable convos with most all other participants here despite disparate views / positions..eg we can agree to disagree for the most part and refrain from assigning labels and/or demonizing or misrepresenting every facet of opposing positions. I'd be among the last to try and curb your free speech rights so you do you and  carry on. You spend an awful lot of time engaged here in the Sink, so you must get some enjoyment out of it.. and exhibit some sort of dependency on it. Have fun, ultimately.   I'll engage you in the other subforums ( Gambling, Vegas travel,etc.)..but not here. You've always have some valuable input in those areas.   

 

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Originally posted by: tom

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Of the 8 only Iran is led by suicidal maniacs.

 

Iran has been attacking the US for decades

 

The Iranian regime’s anti-American campaign began with the 1979 seizure of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, where 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days. In the 1980s, Hezbollah—funded, trained, and directed by Iran—carried out a wave of terror: the April 1983 suicide car bombing at the U.S. Embassy in Beirut that killed 63 people, and the October 1983 Marine barracks bombing in Beirut that killed 241 U.S. service personnel

 

A series of kidnappings, hijackings, and executions—including the torture and murder of of CIA Beirut station chief William Buckley in 1984—terrorized Americans abroad. Beginning in the 1990s, the Iranian-backed Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad also carried out a wave of terror in Israel that included the deaths of many Americans, including a Hamas bus bomb in Jerusalem in 1996 that killed three Americans and the 2001 Sbarro pizzeria bombing in Jerusalem that killed three Americans, 15 in total.

 

The Khobar Towers bombing on June 25, 1996, was carried out by Hezbollah al-Hejaz, a Saudi-based militant group with strong ties to Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). The attack involved a massive truck bomb detonated near a housing complex for U.S. Air Force personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American airmen and injuring nearly 500 others. A forensic investigation by the FBI determined direct Iranian responsibility for the bombing.

 

The U.S. Department of Defense has said that Iran was responsible for at least 608 American troop deaths in Iraq between 2003 and 2011, some 17% of all U.S. service personnel deaths in that time period. Iran trained and armed proxy fighters with advanced weapons—including deadly explosively formed penetrators (EFPs)—used to penetrate armor in order to kill and injure U.S. troops.

 

March 23, 2023: An Iranian drone struck a U.S. base near Hasakah, Syria, killing one American contractor and wounding five U.S. troops.

 

On October 7, 2023, the Iranian-backed terror group Hamas launched an unprecedented massacre against Israel, killing 1,200 people and taking over 250 hostages. Among the victims were more than 40 Americans. Several U.S. citizens were also taken hostage — including Itay Chen, Gad Haggai, Judy Weinstein Haggai, and Hersh Goldberg-Polin — all of whom were later confirmed murdered by Hamas.

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