Breaking the slot code again

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Since carny games are unbeatable without some kind of cheating, I'd say "no."

 

I have a fun memory from the early days of banking slots, like Piggy Bank and Cherry Pie. When Fromaggio (Big Cheese) opened in Vegas, they had rows and rows of those slots. Those were a vultures' paradise, and they accordingly swooped in. Shortly, there were far too many for any of them to make any real money. They got to perching at the end of machine rows, hoping somebody would abandon a machine in a positive state. I watched as a woman played Cherry Pie and almost filled up the pie, but ran out of money. She shrugged, got up and left. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a vulture hurriedly threading his way toward her machine from her left. Then, I looked to the right, and there was another vulture approaching from that side with equal speed. The two vultures and the woman collided in front of the machine. The two vultures immediately started throwing punches at each other, while the women scrambled to her feet, grabbed her purse, and got the hell out of there. The two vultures were still beating each other up when security arrived. I was all but doubled over laughing. The assistant casino manager showed up--this had attracted quite a crowd--and I told him what had happened and why. He thanked me and gave me a lunch comp.

 

Good times!!


The Stardust had quite a few of those machines as well. I remember that night I walked the Strip all the way from Bellagio down to the Sahara. I learned a lot that night. But I also learned that not every Cool Kat or Diamond Thief was guaranteed winner. Sometimes the machines were playing tricks on me.  I also remember the legendary banks of Flush Attack games at the Riverside Casino. These machines were good. Along with good videopoker. Today you can be happy if you don't lose too much. Winning is actually no longer an object.

Originally posted by: Randall Ward

looking forward to it, that $30ish dollars from last year isn't worth much now so feels like a bargain. I dont' expect to get rich but I would like to understand why that creepy guy is watching me at the slots.  Getting $30 worth for me might be possible, that's about 5 minutes on some of those machines. I would like for someone to review that $1,000 carny game book and tell me if that's worth it.  


Anthony said on one of the podcasts that hole carding is a necessary skill for this book to be a valuable play.

Originally posted by: Boris Radtke

The Stardust had quite a few of those machines as well. I remember that night I walked the Strip all the way from Bellagio down to the Sahara. I learned a lot that night. But I also learned that not every Cool Kat or Diamond Thief was guaranteed winner. Sometimes the machines were playing tricks on me.  I also remember the legendary banks of Flush Attack games at the Riverside Casino. These machines were good. Along with good videopoker. Today you can be happy if you don't lose too much. Winning is actually no longer an object.


Ah, yes. Flush Attack. There would be teams of vultures sitting there, playing one coin at a time VERRRY slowly, waiting for the unwitting tourist to hit that third flush, then WHAM WHAM WHAM at lightning speed until the flush was hit. It was highly amusing to see their faces when the tourist would be the one who hit the bonus flush.

 

You can probably tell that I have considerable disdain for slot/VP vultures. It isn't all that lucrative (despite various claims from those who are trying to sell books and website subscriptions), and it's a completely parasitic existence. I think it's also tedious as hell after a short while. But I guess it beats being a Starbucks barista.

Originally posted by: MaxFlavor

Anthony said on one of the podcasts that hole carding is a necessary skill for this book to be a valuable play.


It's my opinion that hole carding is out-and-out cheating, but Anthony has vehemently disagreed. To me, it's like peeking at somebody's hand in bridge or poker or gin rummy. You could make the excuse that they should guard their hand and if they make it possible for you to see it, well, that's their fault. And yeah, if you have no sense of ethics at all, I guess that's true.

 

The reason I'm opposed to player cheating and/or shady moves is that whatever the casinos may do or be, they're scrupulously honest insofar as how their games are played. And yes, they're that way because they were forced to be. But I for one enjoy the fact that I don't have to worry about the dealer cheating me.


Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

It's my opinion that hole carding is out-and-out cheating, but Anthony has vehemently disagreed. To me, it's like peeking at somebody's hand in bridge or poker or gin rummy. You could make the excuse that they should guard their hand and if they make it possible for you to see it, well, that's their fault. And yeah, if you have no sense of ethics at all, I guess that's true.

 

The reason I'm opposed to player cheating and/or shady moves is that whatever the casinos may do or be, they're scrupulously honest insofar as how their games are played. And yes, they're that way because they were forced to be. But I for one enjoy the fact that I don't have to worry about the dealer cheating me.


  If one is foolish to expose their card(s), then they DESERVE the consequences.   End of thread.

Originally posted by: David Miller

  If one is foolish to expose their card(s), then they DESERVE the consequences.   End of thread.


Yep, if one is foolish enough to leave one's door unlocked, then they "DESERVE" to have their house robbed.

 

Thanks for sharing your ethics, David.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

Yep, if one is foolish enough to leave one's door unlocked, then they "DESERVE" to have their house robbed.

 

Thanks for sharing your ethics, David.


  You are welcome.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

....... What if the Golden Commode saw the flock of vultures and quietly set the bonusing games they liked to that 75% minimum? How would they know?....

.


My understanding is they are not allowed to change payback percentage on the fly like that. They need prior approval from the gaming control board and a gaming agent needs to be there to "turn his key." 

Originally posted by: LiveFreeNW

My understanding is they are not allowed to change payback percentage on the fly like that. They need prior approval from the gaming control board and a gaming agent needs to be there to "turn his key." 


That's not what I've seen in the past;I've watched over slot techs' shoulders as they accessed a menu that explicitly lists various payback percentages. Last time I saw that was on a Wheel of Fortune game. The options ranged from 84% to 97%, in about 2% increments.

 

I remember at the Lodge in Central City, being surprised to see that a slot had been set to 97%, the max. I asked the slot tech about it and he said he had been told to set that bank of machines for the highest available payback. I played them after he left and yeah, I got a lot of little hits and was able to play for a long time.

 

If the policy you suggest existed, casinos wouldn't be able to change VP paytables without authorization, and we've all seen good games go poof overnight, and on occasion, seen slot techs directly degrade them. I really can't imagine, on a practical basis, the Gaming Control Board being able or wanting to send a goon to approve every single payback change.

Originally posted by: Kevin Lewis

That's not what I've seen in the past;I've watched over slot techs' shoulders as they accessed a menu that explicitly lists various payback percentages. Last time I saw that was on a Wheel of Fortune game. The options ranged from 84% to 97%, in about 2% increments.

 

I remember at the Lodge in Central City, being surprised to see that a slot had been set to 97%, the max. I asked the slot tech about it and he said he had been told to set that bank of machines for the highest available payback. I played them after he left and yeah, I got a lot of little hits and was able to play for a long time.

 

If the policy you suggest existed, casinos wouldn't be able to change VP paytables without authorization, and we've all seen good games go poof overnight, and on occasion, seen slot techs directly degrade them. I really can't imagine, on a practical basis, the Gaming Control Board being able or wanting to send a goon to approve every single payback change.


changing videopoker paytable is of course different from changing average return percentages (RTP) on slots. You can easily identify good videopoker and compare to bad videopoker by checking the paytables. The ramdomness of the cards cannot be changed. Just the paytables. Which is the indicator about how much a machine will return in the long run (based on optimum play). 

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