7 setbacks for the middle class

Using your logic we should just raise the minimum wage to $1000 an hour. Then everyone will be rich and since there's no relationship between what businesses pay people and employment levels, everyone gets to keep their crappy job.

Well, alanleroy, this is what happens when you start believing in ghosts and monsters. You reach silly conclusions.

If the minimum wage was $1,000, then the meal deal at McDonalds would cost $1,000. And the bankers (and retirees) around the world would be very upset about what had happened to their dollar based investments. The real demand for labor would plunge, if it happened suddenly, but then recover, just like any other financial bubble.

But again, you are simply avoiding the actual issue, which is where is your PROOF that increases in the minimum wage reduce real GNP? You can't cover up a lack of proof by saying "Well, my theory is simple, so it MUST be true."

I think it is much more likely that increases in the minimum wage create a black market, thus removing part of real GNP from the measurement, and also imposing substantial risks on a portion of society.

It's actually pretty basic economic theory. It's not believing in ghosts and monsters or even the Boogie Man. It's called Supply and Demand. You can learn more about it in any Economics Textbook.

You may find this link interesting.

https://www.sparknotes.com/economics/micro/labormarkets/labordemand/section1.rhtml

"If the equilibrium wage is below the minimum wage, however, then there will be a surplus of labor: at the artificially high minimum wage, aggregate demand for labor is lower than aggregate supply, meaning that there will be unemployment (surpluses of labor). In this situation, not every worker who is willing to work for the minimum wage will be able to find a firm who wants to hire them. "

"The irony of the situation is that most people who advocate a higher minimum wage are hoping to help out the workers at the bottom of the ladder, when in reality, a higher minimum wage could very well put those workers out of a job. "

Now, serious, honest people can disagree on whether Minimum Wage is good for society. The study Forkush linked is one such serious disagreement. The article I linked above points out that "There are strong arguments for either side"....and I specifically pointed that out earlier in this thread. Claiming Supply and Demand and analysis of Labor Markets is akin to Ghosts and Monsters is neither serious nor honest.

Nice theory you got there. Bet that book is popular with libertarians.

Looking at actual data - that is 16 years measuring employment markets in contiguous areas that had differing minimum wages, the higher minimum wages cost zero jobs.

I see. Another vote for supply and demand for labor = Ghosts and Monsters. As I mentioned (several times), there is great disagreement among economists about the real impact minimum wage has on employment.

The fact that 'the higher minimum wages cost zero jobs' is not proof that a minimum wage in general is not preventing the least skilled workers from gaining employment. The fact of the matter is that unemployment among unskilled workers is already extremely high by historic standards. Slightly higher minimum wages may not result in existing workers losing their job. The government fixing the minimum price for labor is certainly preventing many unskilled unemployed workers from finding a new one.

If you want to really increase the wages and standard of living of poor unskilled American workers, then get tough on people working here illegally.

- should we raise minimum wage to historic levels? Or just tell those lazy workers to get a better job?-THERE WAS A DEVELOPER IN THEBRONX WHO WANTED TO CONVERT AN EMPTY ARMORY INTO A MALL. THE CITY COUNCIL SAID HE WOULD HAVE TO PAY A MINIMUM WAGE OF $15 TO EVERYONE WHO WORKED THERE. THE DEVLEOPER WALKED AWAY AND TOOK HIS SEVERAL THOUSAND JOBS WITH HIM

- should investors continue to pay smaller tax rates than workers or not? 47% OF PEOPLE PAY ZERO INCOME INCOME TAXES; DON'T THINK THEY ARE INVESTORS

- should all people be able to see a doctor when they are sick or is that a privilege for only those who can pay for it? - OBAMACARE IS NOT WORKING OUT

- should we give tax incentives or penalties to companies that offshore jobs to sweatshops in third world countries? - N EED MORE DETAILD FROM YOU ON THIS

- should we put workers at the mercy of their employer or should they be allowed to organize and have a collective voice? - WHO SAYS WORKERS CAN'T ORGANIZE?

- should we have big government programs to build ladders of opportunity for the underprivileged...or is that a waste of taxdollars? - 50 YEARS OF THE WAR ON POVERTY SAYS IT ALL

forky your study was done by the Institute for New Economic Thinking which is funded by george soros. I suspect the study was structured in order to prove the preconceived conclusion

First, not true. There's an adjective you could add to make it accurate - let's see if you can figure it out which one. And even then, your statement is phrased so stupidly that I can come back with this:

37% "of people" (your phrase) are under 18 or over 65.

Also, when you add state, local, sales, and payroll taxes, the middle class pays a much higher rate than Mitt Romney.

In other words …. "My theory is so simple, it must be true." You could say exactly the same about the ideology of the Third Reich, and find many supporting citations. "Intelligence depends upon the shape of one's head," etc. etc. The fact that people believe in ghosts doesn't cause them to exist.

And, actually, I'm not being facetious. The idiots actually refer to "the invisible hand."

Once again, the actual issue is PROOF that an increase in minimum wage causes unemployment, not the popularity of the theory that it does.

There is absolutely no EVIDENCE that the cause and effect relationship you suggest is real.

You mean like "U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS, THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON THE WAGES AND EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES OF BLACK WORKERS"

https://www.usccr.gov/pubs/IllegImmig_10-14-10_430pm.pdf

"Illegal immigration to the United States in recent decades has tended to depress both wages and employment rates for low-skilled American citizens, a disproportionate number of whom are black men. "

Sorry, I really wanted to avoid these political discussions this year and they really don't resolve anything. I believe no one in America should want for Food, Shelter or Medical Care. I just think there are better ways to do that than a minimum wage. Now, I'll just politely bow out.