Detroit, Obamacare, and Unexpected Consequences

Well, you said "huge majorities were in charge in 2009".

Given the way this GOP filibusters everything, you can be sure that Sen. Reid never felt truly "in charge" those six months when 60 Senators assented to his leadership.

Dont worry, DD, Congress has not read the replacement bill for Obamacare either. Its difficcult to read something that doesn't exist.

Oddly enough the CBO did read the ACA bill and concluded it reduces the deficit instead of adding to it like the system that came before it. I'm not sure what to say to people like Don Diego who are passionate about reducing the deficit and then blast laws that do that very thing.

If Don Diego has opinions on how to improve health care costs/access/ and quality then I'm sure it would be a very constructive part of the debate. But if Don Diego's opinions are limited to being critical of one solution while offering up none of his own....well then, that doesn't get us too far does it? Fortunately it does give Don Diego a home in todays political arena because as luck would have it being critical without having an alternative is exactly the dispositon the national GOP on healthcare.

To date the John Boehner Congress has voted 37 times to repeal Obamacare and go back to the system we had before. I will now exclusively offer a critical opinion of the GOP replacement healthcare bill: they dont have one.

Well, . . . now that Obamacare has been around for a while, . . . lots of folks are reading it. And they are coming to the conclusion that when the Congress requests a study from the CBO and provides all sorta unrealistic assumptions which the CBO is instructed to incorporate in their assessment, the end product ends up just about like what the Congressional leadership wanted to hear.

But it's 2013, and the Senate Budget Committee requested a new study by the Government Accountability Office.
Technically they requested two studies.
One employed the baseline assumptions similar to those of earlier studies, like the CBO exercise pjstroh references; the conclusion: "Obamacare’s cost-control provisions 'were not sufficient to prevent an unsustainable increase in debt held by the public.' ”
The second study "incorporated more realistic 'alternative projections' suggested by by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Trustees, and Medicare’s chief actuary — about 'whether certain cost-containment mechanisms included in PPACA can be sustained over the long term' "; the conclusion: "The Senate Budget Committee staff calculated, and GAO confirmed, that it would amount to a $6.2 trillion increase in the federal deficit."

Ref: Obamacare Adds $6.2-Trillion to Deficit [The reference includes a link to the GAO study, for those desiring a soporific.]

$6.2-trillion here, 6.2-trillion there, . . . pretty soon it adds up to real money.

Oh, . . . pjstroh wanted an alternative.
When DonDiego was growing up folks who wanted health care insurance bought it or negotiated with their employer or other voluntary association to obtain group insurance. Those who chose not to pay or who could not afford it didn't have it. When poor little DonDiego the daredevil flew over the handlebars of his tricycle and smashed his chin on a cement drainpipe, his Mother drove him to the family doctor who sewed his chin up right there in the office. Pennsylvania Blue Cross/Blue Shield paid most of the bill. The system worked fine.
Generally a system in which people are responsible for their own well-being works pretty well.
The alternative leads to somebody gettin' something for nothin'; folks jes' don't seem to appreciate things they don't pay fer as much as things they do, . . . and eventually they feel entitled. And pretty soon them there entitlements jes' expand, from necessities to things folks could live without.

Food entitlements here, . . . housing entitlements there, . . . cellphone entitlements everywhere, . . . pretty soon it adds up to real money.

ALL "entitlements" are funded with OTHER people's money- sounds like Socialism to me... Well, all of you "Socialists" are now having to accept the reality that "other' people's money" is /and has been exhausted, ala Detroit. I would like to read how all of you liberal know-it-alls talk your way out of this reality, and I don't think that charts and graphs will be helpful when explaining what is happening to Detroit and throughout America.

hahaha, always fun to hear from the fact-averse lol

"It's on a chart? Then it must not be true!!!"

Oh, Don Diego, I'm wondering if you might be guilty of not reading something. The very GAO Report you've cited clearly states the 6.2 trillion dollar deficit only occurs if Obamacare is not fully implemented as it was passed. But don't feel bad - that's a detail Senator Sessions doesn't like to admit when he goes on FOX News . It is very true that IF Congress is to remove all of the funding measures passed with Obamacare it will most certainly add to the deficit. Let me know when that happens and your GAO reference might suddenly hold some water.

From the GAO Report:
"The effect of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), enacted in March 2010, on the long-term fiscal outlook depends largely on whether elements in PPACA designed to control cost growth are sustained.
...
There was notable improvement in the longer-term outlook after the enactment of [the health care law] under GAO's Fall 2010 Baseline Extended simulation, which assumes both the expansion of health care coverage and the full implementation and effectiveness of the cost-containment provisions over the entire 75-year simulation period."

The Fall 2010 Alternative simulation assumed cost containment mechanisms specified in PPACA were phased out over time while the additional costs associated with expanding federal health care coverage remained. Under these assumptions, the long-term outlook worsened slightly compared to the pre-PPACA January 2010 simulation. [Government Accountability Office, January 2013]

And From Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/03/05/gop-senator-knowingly-distorts-gao-report-he-commissioned-to-launch-most-dishonest-attack-on-obamacare-to-date/

America is totally opposed to socialism. Totally!!!

That's why we don't have . . .

* Military/defense
* Highways & roads
* Libraries
* Police departments
* Fire departments
* Postal service
* Public landfills
* Farm subsidies
* CIA
* FBI
* Polio vaccine
* EPA
* Social security
* Museums
* Public schools
* Prisons & jails
* Corporate & business subsidies
* Health care for veterans
* Public parks
* Food stamps
* Sewers
* Medicare
* Courts
* Bird flue vaccine
* G.I. Bill
* Hoover Dam
* IRS
* School lunches for poor kids
* Medicaid
* FDA
* Health care for 9-11 rescue workers
* Swine flue vaccine
* Disability insurance
* Public beaches
* Unemployment insurance
* Public transit
* WIC
* CDC
* Welfare
* Street lights
* FEMA
* Public defenders
* State childrens' health insurance programs
* DHS
* OSHA
* State and national monuments
* USDA
* Customs & Border Protection
* Secret Service
* Criminal prosecutors
* National Weather Service
* Civilization

Thank goodness we don't have the dread scourge of socialism in this country!

PS - I'm happy to see Don Diego advocate a healthcare system: America pre-Obamacare. I give him credit. Most conservatives wont advocate anything on this topic.

I'll be happy to stack up the pros and cons of that system vs ACA anytime. Start a thread. Incidentally - Don Diego was lucky to have Blue Cross take care of his bills when he was a child. If Don Diego was born with a preexisting condition it is very likely Blue Cross would not have. The same would have been true if Don Diego's father lost his job the day before the aforementioned incident. Whew! Lets all be thankful.

I believe prior to Obamacare there were about 30 million people in this country that were not so fortunate.

[DonDiego opines this post is somewhat off-topic. But that the collectivist tendencies of Detroit managers and the collectivist nature of Obamacare do, indeed, illustrate the problems of socialism. So it's OK.]

That America is not totally opposed to socialism is obvious. However, Chilcoot's reference to "75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America" (mercifully abbreviated to 52) assumes a definition of socialism unfamiliar to DonDiego. Just because it's posted on The Daily Kos doesn't make it true.

Hmm, . . . DonDiego will take a stab at it.
Socialism: a social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership and control of property, natural resources, capital, land, etc. and public control of the means of production and distribution of economic goods and services.

DonDiego recommends realization of the differences between:
i. legitimate, necessary government functions - identified initially in the US Constitution
ii. assumption of functions in a straightforward collective socialist government
iii. assumption of necessary government functions in the modern world

* Military/defense - legitimate Government function (LGF); in the Constitution
* Highways & roads - initially public and private roads coexisted; efficiency pretty much led to government ownership, as socialist. Privately-owned bridges/roads would be better maintained, . . . but it is not to be.
* Libraries - socialist
* Police departments - LGF
* Fire departments - see Highways & roads, above
* Postal service - socialist; but with capitalist competition
* Public landfills - see Highways & roads, above; some are privately owned/managed, but with public funds
* Farm subsidies - not socialism; but should be eliminated as redistribution of income
* CIA - LGF
* FBI - LGF
* Polio vaccine - not socialism; government financed research probably a LGF in modern world
* EPA - not socialism; probably a LGF in the modern world
* Social security - mandatory old-age annuity is not a LGF; more totalitarianism than socialism; underfunded
* Museums - socialism; co-exist with private libraries
* Public schools - socialism; co-exist with private schools
* Prisons & jails - LGF
* Corporate & business subsidies - see Farm subsidies, above
* Health care for veterans - LGF, compensation of veterans
* Public parks - socialism
* Food stamps - redistribution of income; more totalitarianism than socialism
* Sewers - socialism
* Medicare - mandatory medical insurance is not a LGF; more totalitarianism than socialism; underfunded
* Courts - LGF
* Bird flue vaccine - see Polio vaccine, above
* G.I. Bill - LGF; see Health care for veterans
* Hoover Dam - socialist
* IRS - LGF
* School lunches for poor kids - see Food stamps, above
* Medicaid - see Food stamps, above
* FDA - see EPA, above
* Health care for 9-11 rescue workers - see Health care for veterans, above
* Swine flue vaccine - see Polio vaccine, above
* Disability insurance - mandatory insurance is not a LGF; more totalitarianism than socialism; underfunded; abused
* Public beaches - socialist
* Unemployment insurance - mandatory insurance is not a LGF; more totalitarianism than socialism; underfunded; abused
* Public transit - see Highways/roads, above
* WIC - see Food stamps, above
* CDC - see EPA, above
* Welfare - see Food stamps, above
* Street lights - see Highways & roads, above
* FEMA - not socialism; probably LGF in modern world
* Public defenders - ???
* State childrens' health insurance programs - ???
* DHS - probably LGF in modern world; should have been incorporated in exisiting agency
* OSHA - see EPA, above
* State and national monuments - socialist
* USDA - see EPA, above
* Customs & Border Protection - LGF
* Secret Service - LGF
* Criminal prosecutors - LGF
* National Weather Service - socialist
* Civilization - NONSENSE !

DonDiego would generally prefer a society in which the Government is smaller and less powerful. DonDiego would generally prefer that private ownership and voluntary markets determine the production & distribution of economic goods and services.

But DonDiego recognizes the Founding Fathers could not foresee the advances in technology, transportation, communication, science/medicine, etc. that legitimize some additional government functions. Even the 15-or-so items above which DonDiego concurs are socialistic, DonDiego doesn't oppose; DonDiego loves the National Parks.
Things change.

But there's little question that he would draw the line against the growth of Government sooner than Chilcoot.
And some things the Government just should not do.