The Unaffordable Care Act

I love the part that says "the difference will be paid by the federal government". And just where do the "funds" come from that the "federal government will be using? Is there a slush fund available that no one knows about? Are we the tax payers going to have to pay for someone else's medical premiums? Well?????

It seems that as of now the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is not particularly popular, with an overall disapproval of 53% vs an approval of 42%.


Source: The Washington Post

DonDiego is a mite surprised at how little folks really know about the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

__Most folks know that the uninsured are required to purchase insurance. But "[a]mong the uninsured, 76% of respondents said they didn't understand the law and how it would affect them. Only 32% of the uninsured thought they were 'fairly' or 'very' likely to use the exchanges."

__And only about half know that the Government, . . . i.e the taxpayers, . . . will provide subsidies to the newly-insured low income folks. DonDiego supposes that this reality will begin to sink in over the next few years, . . . when low-income folks learn they're getting something they'll become more approving. And as the taxes legislated but not yet in force kick in the taxpayers who have to pay them will lose some of their already limited enthusiasm:

**A 3.8% surtax on "investment income" when one's adjusted gross income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for joint-filers). What is "investment income?" Dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, annuities, house sales, partnerships, etc. [ And if Congress does not extend the Bush tax cuts, taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to a shocking 43.8%.] (WSJ)

**A 0.9% surtax on Medicare taxes for those making $200,000 or more ($250,000 joint). One already pays Medicare tax of 1.45%, and one's employer pays another 1.45% for you (unless one is self-employed, in which case one pays the whole 2.9%). Kicking in in 2013, the Medicare bill will be 2.35%. (WSJ)

**Flexible Spending Account contributions will be capped at $2,500 from the current $10,000. Currently, there is no tax-related limit on how much one can set aside pre-tax to pay for medical expenses. Kicking in in 2013. [i.e. citizens will be limited for saving their own money tax free to care for themselves.] (ATR.org)

**The itemized-deduction hurdle for medical expenses is going up to $10,000. Any medical expenses over $7,500 per year have been deductible; beginning in 2013 that hurdle will be $10,000. (ATR.org)

**The penalty on non-medical withdrawals from Healthcare Savings Accounts is now 20% instead of 10%. That's twice the penalty that applies to annuities, IRAs, and other tax-free vehicles. (ATR.org)

**A tax of 10% on indoor tanning services has been in place since the summer of 2010. (ATR.org)

**A"Medicine Cabinet Tax" that eliminates the ability to pay for over-the-counter medicines from a pre-tax Flexible Spending Account. (ATR.org)

**A "penalty" tax for those who don't buy health insurance. This will phase in from 2014-
2016. It will range from $695 per person to about $4,700 per person, depending on income.

**A tax on medical devices costing more than $100. Kicked in in 2013, medical device manufacturers have to pay a 2.3% excise tax on medical equipment. This is expected to raise the cost of medical procedures.

**A 40% tax on health care plans will start in 2018.Those whose employers pay for all or most of comprehensive healthcare plans (costing $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for families) will have to pay a 40% tax on the amount their employer pays. [ This is gonna be expensive for folks who already have excellent health insurance through their employers; clearly they deserve to be punished. No wonder it's delayed until 2018! ] (ATR.org)
The people who disapprove of the healthcare law fall into two categories:
- People who want to go back to the system we had before
- People who feel the new law does not go far enough and are disappointed so many problems were left unaddressed.

Put me and most progressives in category 2. I would love to see a poll of people who are asked simply which system they prefer..the new one or the old one. I'm pretty sure you would get different numbers.

But, yes, Don Diego notes that the ACA is paid for with taxes...a massive departure away from the previous administration that enacted some healthcare programs that just got slapped onto the credit card. I believe thats called being fiscally responsible...see the CBO's analysis of both programs to see how that works.
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Originally posted by: DonDiego
It seems that as of now the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is not particularly popular, with an overall disapproval of 53% vs an approval of 42%.
Wait! What happened to the original argument here that ObamaCare premiums are "unaffordable?" Oh yeah, that crock got shot down with specific numbers from the Kaiser Family Foundation, the Boston Globe, Trader Joe's and the Oregon and Nevada exchanges.


And what happened to the argument that ObamaCare coverage is inadequate. Oh yeah, that got shot down by specific examples from Chil's scenario, a 60 year-old man scenario, and a specific Trader Joe's employee.


And now DonDiego's big argument is that it is unpopular? Do you think that could be because very ignorant or very dishonest people are claiming that it is unaffordable and has inadequate coverage? I do.

But Congress (who wrote the law) and the unions (who supported it) don't want any part of it. Perhaps they know more than us
We're the second fattest country on earth! 11 million citizens from the fattest country on earth are living here illegally. Dumping millions of fat people into the health care system is a recipe for disaster. Any idiot can see that. Sub-idiots apparently can't see it. The obesity rate in this country is 34%. The next highest obesity rate for industrialized countries is the UK with 25%. They have many problems with their system even though they've had decades to get it right and have far fewer fat people. The chance that Obamacare will succeed is virtually nil.
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Originally posted by: esteskefauver
Any idiot can see that.
You said it brother!

And we can't even keep our Ambassador safe in Benghazi!

And Hillary killed Vince Foster to cover up their affair!

And Ruby Ridge!!!



Your witness, LVA conservatives lol.
Actual facts about American healthcare.
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Originally posted by: Moosehaven
Actual facts about American healthcare.


Anyone that believes the crap that guys selling is a complete moron. Heart disease and cancer are the #1 and #2 causes of death and the leading cause of both those diseases is obesity. Obesity is also a major factor in other diseases and health problems like diabetes, back pain, and high blood pressure.

Your math is a little off:

The ACA, as passed by Congress, capped total out-of-pocket medical costs at $6,350 for insured individuals, and $12,700 for families.
Source: https://www.cnbc.com/id/100959960
So that is 12,700 for a family plan plus the cost of the premium so using your numbers we end up with $19,288.00 per-year. That's 28% of a 70k a year gross income.

but wait there is more good news Obama has decided to delay the cap:
Quote

The limit on out-of-pocket costs, including deductibles and co-payments, was not supposed to exceed $6,350 for an individual and $12,700 for a family. But under a little-noticed ruling, federal officials have granted a one-year grace period to some insurers, allowing them to set higher limits, or no limit at all on some costs, in 2014.

Source:https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/us/a-limit-on-consumer-costs-is-delayed-in-health-care-law.html?src=mb&_r=1&
Golly, Did you read that no limit? Sounds more like Texas Holdem instead of health insurance. Guess O decided asking someone to pay 28% a year of their income in health care wasn't enough.


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Originally posted by: Chilcoot
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Originally posted by: malibber2
I challenge you to lay it out here exactly how someone with some sort of medical condition that requires ongoing treatment is better off with Obama care. Let's say for sake of argument in the typical year the cost of their medical care is 50k a year prior to any insurance paying out. Say they are 40 years old, have a family plan and they are a non-smoker with a family income of 70k. Crunch the numbers for me how much does said individual have to pay out of pocket per-year for the insurance premiums, co-insurance and deductible?
The situation will vary depending on where you live. If I can add that your family has two kids and that you live in Oregon, here's what you'll experience.

You will pay $549 of the $750 monthly premium. The difference will be paid by the federal government. Your maximum out-of-pocket costs will be $6,250, which does not include the premiums. Therefore, the health care expenses for your entire family will be no higher than $549x12 + $6,250 = $12,838.

So if you have $50,000 in medical bills, the insurance will pay no less than $50,000 - $12,838 = $37,162 of it. That's a $37,162 savings compared to the policy you describe.

Plus your wife can get insurance even if she has a pre-existing condition, something not necessarily true before Obamacare.

You owe it to your family to learn more.


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