I have played for more than ten years at Dotty’s, a chain of 15-machine (mostly) establishments located throughout Nevada.
While the promotions at Dotty’s vary periodically, one constant has been their Jackpot Bonus promotion where 10% of all W2gs receive a 10% bonus. That is, if you hit a $4,000 jackpot, 10% of the time you’ll receive an extra $400 in cash.
When I play there, I select my denomination with an eye toward getting W2gs. Let’s say I’m playing 9/6 Jacks or Better. If I play less than $24 per hand, I’ll only get W2gs on royals. Between $25 and $47 per hand, I’ll only get W2gs on royals and straight flushes. At $48 and higher, I’ll also get W2gs on quads. To get W2gs on full houses, I need to bet $135 or higher.
They have machines at Dotty’s where you can play up to 50 coins for $1, $2, and $5 and you’ll get full odds on the royal for all bets five coins and higher. This is why you have a much wider choice of denominations there than at other establishments. You can play these same machine for lower denominations as well, but invariably the odds on games denominated for 50 cents or lower are much tighter than the games denominated for $1 or higher.)
For me, the sweet spot is $50. While I can afford to play for $135 a hand, these places don’t have a lot of cash on hand and I often start getting paid in twenties, or sometimes fives. Imagine a $6,750 straight flush paid off in five-dollar bills. If I’m playing $50 a hand, quads (the most likely jackpot) are $1,250 which allows for more jackpots before they run out of hundreds. (When I hit a royal, it’s $40,000 and taking a check is basically mandatory. I could demand cash, but it would take several hours to get it.)
For whatever stakes you play, when you hit a jackpot, you need to walk up to the counter, sign some paperwork, and get paid. The attendant then walks you back to your machine and unlocks it. There are modern ways to pay jackpots at some places that allow you to just sign one W2g per night no matter how many jackpots you get, but these conveniences are not found at Dotty’s.
It’s typical that you still have credits when you hit a W2g. When the machine is still locked up, nobody can touch those credits. But sometimes, when there are two or more attendants, one attendant will go over and unlock the machine before the player has been paid.
When that happens to me, I make a scene. If I’m forced to remain at the front desk and I have, say, $2,000 in credits unguarded at the machine, this is not a safe environment for my money. There are often players I don’t know walking around and it would be very easy for them to walk by and cash out the ticket.
When the machine is unlocked before I am paid, I go back and sit down at the machine and tell them to pay me there. If they refuse, I cash out and demand that one of them stand by the machine to make sure I can reclaim it after I get paid.
I’ve had attendants swear that no one could cash out my credits on their watch. My response is, “Really? Are you personally going to come up with the $2,000 on my machine if somebody comes by, grabs the ticket, and leaves? Are you positive that you won’t be distracted by the telephone or something else when that happens?”
These attendants aren’t well-paid. Them covering a $2,000 jackpot is out of the question. Even if I would get the money from Dotty’s (which is extremely likely), it would be time-consuming and require a lot of paperwork.
I really don’t like to make a scene at any sort of casino. Many times, I’m the only player at a particular Dotty’s receiving W2gs. Many players are playing keno, 25 cents or less at a time, with no chance at getting a W2g ever, and I’m averaging more than two an hour. They think I’m the luckiest dude in the world and may develop a plan to separate me from my cash. Getting into a loud argument can cause extra resentment. And sometimes it could be the tipping point that eliminates my welcome.
I don’t want that. But I need to let the attendants know that I do not want my machine unlocked early. So, I talk to them firmly about this. Not loudly.
Usually they get the message and, happily or not, go along with what I request.
Usually their intent was to give me better service, possibly in the hope that I’d give a bigger tip. But in the process, they inadvertently exposed me to unnecessary risk. I’m not mad at them. I merely need for them to understand the predicament they are putting me in. I’ve never had to have this conversation with the same attendant twice!
“Getting into a loud argument can cause extra resentment.” Words to live by.
What am I missing? Jacks or better has an EV of 99.54% meaning the house edge is nearly a half percent over the long term if promotions are disregarded. Winning hands paying over $1200 are taxable. Anyone in the 25% tax bracket loses 25% on all taxable wins. Some folks file as professional gamblers but if they gamble locally most of the expenses they itemize consists of losses, and travel expenses (mileage). What else is deductible? How can anyone win long term against the house edge and income taxes?
Write off the losses…..Casinos send you free lay offers……Other factors…..I take it you’re new here….
US tax law was changed, you can no longer write off the first $12,000 or so in losses, unless you file Sch C and SE, and that’s complicated. Of course in Canada, gambling is not taxed and internet gambling is not restricted. Canadians who gamble in the US are subject to automatic withholding, but they can apply to get that back.
I laugh because this article almost seems a veiled response to the guy who questioned you in a previous post not playing “full pay” on that $40,000 royal in clubs that closely resembled the previous 2 royals in sequencing. If they would have examined the screen closely, it was evident that the hit was 800x the bet. As if Bob Dancer would not play a full pay ever ha ha!
I will admit myself being curious about why you chose that particular coin in window for the 40k royal. This post explains that.
All he is saying is it is a positive play to gain an edge and show net profit in the long run. Whatever the net profit is in a given year, he will pay taxes on it after claiming all W2Gs and corresponding business expenses. (I’m guessing schedule C) At end of the day he knows his net net profit for the year. He then pays taxes on it like all of us do on our normal earnings from a job after all our deductions to get to taxable income.
Now if you aren’t a professional, then you have a good point. And many times it almost impossible to make it profitable after federal and local taxes if you can’t deduct from taxable income. I play 4-5 times and year but it is mainly to be around even and just get free rooms basically and maybe a free meal. On years where I get too many W2Gs (not that often) my state taxes at least I can’t escape. (and sometimes not all of the federal side)
Yes. The tax situation for a professional gambler is different than for a non-professional. I pay taxes on the next win — not on individual W2gs. If you’re not a professional gambler, this W2g promotion at Dotty’s isn’t positive EV,
And the slot club at Dotty’s is somewhat convoluted. You do get weekly mailers. When I play $80K-100K weekly, my mailers average $200 – $300 weekly. Always unusual amounts. Going up over the month. Such as $213, $288, $352, and $457 over four weeks,
I hadn’t played since February and was up $41K for the night in early August. My September weekly mailers are $1, $1, $2, $2. They will go unredeemed.
This is typical, but their system for your free play basically only includes a rolling average over the past 4 months. So, I won’t play until mid-December.
Bob – curious what you mean by the “I won’t play until mid-December” comment. If your offers are based on a rolling 4 month average, won’t you have to play August-November in order to have a rolling average other than ~$0 (or the same average that generated the $1, 1, 2, 2 mailer)? What am I missing? 🙂
I think many of us would be interested in a general explanation of the tax reporting of a professional gambler. Do you pay quarterly? Are taxes deducted by casinos? What can be claimed on Schedule C? Etc.
A guide to taxes won’t be coming from me.
Jean Scott and Marissa Chien have a book through LVA — Tax Help for Gamblers — and the latest edition with updates from Russell Fox (the tax expert we use on the GWAE program) — is much better than the earlier ones
Also:
irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center
And:
irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf
Sounds like you must be a bit too frugal. How about you give the attendant a nice fat tip and you don’t have to worry about some shithead stealing your credits?
‘Sounds like you must be a bit too frugal. How about you give the attendant a nice fat tip and you don’t have to worry about some shithead stealing your credits?’
“a bit too frugal” implies a tip considerably smaller than a “nice fat tip.”
Tipping more might solve the problem. It is also a very skinny play — on the level of 0.2%. It would be easy to tip that away entirely.
It’s easier to say somebody else should tip more than tipping more yourself. Everybody has to find the right balance for tipping for themselves.
And I have.
I was trying to be polite. You’ve spent all these years in casino-type establishments and not know how to operate and get along with the employees? You know, you just too “frugal” 🙂
Michael Winne,
Yes, the taxes seem to pose an impassable barrier for players who seek to win at video poker. Taxes, tighter games, and fewer promos make it all more difficult. On a recent show, Bob Dancer said Jean Scott gave up and left Vegas because of steadily diminishing opportunities.
Taxes can impact other forms of gambling, too. A guy once told me that he gave up live poker tourneys and switched to poker cash games to avoid the many tax forms he got from finishing in the money.